Lol! That’s hilarious. You are proving the point I was making to the other guy, in my last comment. You are selectively omitting all the ways that the Soviet Union did exactly the same thing as the US, after the war.
The Soviets had Operation Osoaviakhim, which used over 6000 Nazi operatives brought in from all over Nazi occupied territories, for their own missile programs, etc. Both Russia and the US were literally conducting almost identical programs across the spectrum, all the way through the entire cold war. It was
The fact that you’re just listing one side’s sketchy profile while completely ignoring the other, is the definition of intellectual dishonesty.
Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword?
Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces.
The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn’t just “work” for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn’t just “consult” for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren’t technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament.
You call that “identical.” That’s not analysis. That’s surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can’t grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It’s instructive. I personally couldn’t imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate.
See? Again, this is all framed in an incredibly selective way. This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can”…and I’m not even defending the US. You’re having a one-sided argument with someone who isn’t arguing with any of the points you’re making…only the fact that you’re leaving out all the parts you don’t like, while white-washi g the parts you do. That’s disingenuous.
If historical record sounds like the soviets were overwhelmingly better than the west, then that’s just your evaluation of the actual historical record. That’s what happened, it isn’t because soviets good and US bad, it’s from fundamental differences in how fascism is treated by communists vs. by liberals.
This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can”
No it’s the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don’t like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn’t change that. The USSR for it’s many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war.
You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I’m surprised the embarrassment hasn’t won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you’re still in the denial phase.
Ummm, yeah. I’m not disputing the accuracy of what you’re saying…just that you’re only including one side’s policies in your criticism. You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. This is also a matter of historical record.
So, I find the fact that your criticism isn’t equally measured to be somewhat problematic. It is clear evidence that your views are biased. It would be a rather simple thing to acknowledge these parallels and call out both sides for their actions…wouldn’t it?
This is where the propaganda aspect comes into play. You look at these parallel situations and find a way to make one side look good for doing it, while criticizing the other. That’s how propaganda works. You aren’t telling a lie, exactly…you’re just finding a clever way to misrepresent the truth, in order to support a preconceived narrative. In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided.
You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US.
But they weren’t identical that’s the whole point I’m making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can’t grasp what I’m saying
In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided.
In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was “cartoonishly onesided”. Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim.
If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I’ve seen.
I hadn’t known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It’s good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals.
Lol! That’s hilarious. You are proving the point I was making to the other guy, in my last comment. You are selectively omitting all the ways that the Soviet Union did exactly the same thing as the US, after the war.
The Soviets had Operation Osoaviakhim, which used over 6000 Nazi operatives brought in from all over Nazi occupied territories, for their own missile programs, etc. Both Russia and the US were literally conducting almost identical programs across the spectrum, all the way through the entire cold war. It was
The fact that you’re just listing one side’s sketchy profile while completely ignoring the other, is the definition of intellectual dishonesty.
Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword?
Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces.
The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn’t just “work” for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn’t just “consult” for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren’t technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament.
You call that “identical.” That’s not analysis. That’s surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can’t grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It’s instructive. I personally couldn’t imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate.
See? Again, this is all framed in an incredibly selective way. This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can”…and I’m not even defending the US. You’re having a one-sided argument with someone who isn’t arguing with any of the points you’re making…only the fact that you’re leaving out all the parts you don’t like, while white-washi g the parts you do. That’s disingenuous.
If historical record sounds like the soviets were overwhelmingly better than the west, then that’s just your evaluation of the actual historical record. That’s what happened, it isn’t because soviets good and US bad, it’s from fundamental differences in how fascism is treated by communists vs. by liberals.
No it’s the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don’t like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn’t change that. The USSR for it’s many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war.
You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I’m surprised the embarrassment hasn’t won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you’re still in the denial phase.
Operation Paperclip was far more consequential than Operation Osoaviakhim. Not to mention that Operation Osoaviakhim was much more of a reparation than Operation Paperclip was. Contrary to what @Archangel1313@lemmy.ca thinks, the differences between these two programmes are not trivia worth overlooking.
Ummm, yeah. I’m not disputing the accuracy of what you’re saying…just that you’re only including one side’s policies in your criticism. You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. This is also a matter of historical record.
So, I find the fact that your criticism isn’t equally measured to be somewhat problematic. It is clear evidence that your views are biased. It would be a rather simple thing to acknowledge these parallels and call out both sides for their actions…wouldn’t it?
This is where the propaganda aspect comes into play. You look at these parallel situations and find a way to make one side look good for doing it, while criticizing the other. That’s how propaganda works. You aren’t telling a lie, exactly…you’re just finding a clever way to misrepresent the truth, in order to support a preconceived narrative. In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided.
Go back to Reddit
But they weren’t identical that’s the whole point I’m making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can’t grasp what I’m saying
In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was “cartoonishly onesided”. Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim.
If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I’ve seen.
I hadn’t known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It’s good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals.