We? Sucks to be you but that doesn’t apply everywhere.

I heard that back in the days, people used to just go when their work was done on the farms and there was no concept of 9-5 (these days seem 24 hours work).

Yup. In the ancient world, ascetics and monks would practice “having daily schedules” alongside various other harsh forms of penitence, like self-flagellation. One of the ancient Greek authors (Plato?) spoke about it unfavourably even in that context.

The flip side of that, is that if your animals or crops need something now, they need it now. There’s no maximum hours or work-life balance, either. Still, it’s fair to say most people that have experienced that much prefer it, if you put aside how uncomfortable the work itself is.

Because it’s kind of crazy, it’s also worth mentioning that people slept twice in a day, with some time spent up during the night.

There used to be a lot of holidays. Is that true?

Kind of.

Confining ourselves to Europe, there were a lot of public holidays in ancient Rome, and to a lesser extent lots of religious days and festivals in medieval Europe. The medieval holy days were more about fasting or similar than time off of work, though. And, in Rome, there were no weekends yet, so holidays basically served the same role.

Plus, most holidays were optional in both, so a deeply poor person or a slave with a tough master might work fairly continuously.

If it is, then given the abundance in technology, why our work hours increased and why do we have such weird lives that we live to work?

When industialisation came in, 12 hour days were fairly standard. Arguably, working hours have gone down.

As to why we work on schedules now, you basically just have to in a complex, highly specialised society. If you’re using tools you made and maybe a couple your friend the blacksmith made, and using them to produce food and housing from “your own” land, sure, it just all has to get done sometime. If you’re having a formal meeting or vote and show up 2 days late, like is recorded becoming a problem in medieval republics, it’s a bit disruptive.

I don’t know about you, but for me, work is the side-quest.

own only what is available to a farmer from the past (a piece of land and a couple of barns), desire only what is available to a farmer from the past (a hearty dinner and strong tobacco, not a new iPhone), and then you can live like a farmer from the past today.

Those are true, it’s the shift to capitalism. Before excess wealth could be gained through colonization. Once that was done it became about squeezing out as much as you can from your workers. However the good businessman would have squeezed everything they could out of their workers while colonizing. (Like the US in the Middle East since WW2 or more recently Venezuela)

Because the people who own everything aren’t being slaughtered in the streets.

After I hit 40 hours I’m gone. I acknowledge there is a certain amount of privlege required to do that. It took me 20 years to get to that point but Im proud of it and I wanted to brag.

Back then all you had was the clothes on your back an half a sack of grain at the store. There’s more free time if you don’t produce anything.

A lot of it is cultural. Capitalism continues to exploit people not just because of the machinations of a few people at the top, but also because there are many people who have so deeply internalised the logic of capitalism that they are reinforce and perpetuate their own oppression.

A phrase that I’ve found really useful in understanding this is “cultural hegemony”. This theory was originally developed in the early 1900s by the Marxist philosopher, Antonio Gramsci. It’s a pretty dense bit of political theory that I don’t feel like I understand well enough to explain well, but I’ll attempt to give the gist of it

The key thing about cultural hegemony is that it makes the dominant political ideology seem like it’s natural and inevitable. We see this when people recognise the awfulness of their working or living conditions, but then shrug it off by saying “that’s just life”. They can’t imagine any alternative. I see it a lot in my daily life when people see the crafts I make and say “wow, that’s so good, you should sell those” — people are conditioned to only see value in terms of monetary value.

What other choice is there?

1. Because living is more expensive now than before. In medieval times, you had a 30m² wooden house on your farm that you probably built yourself, no heater, no car, no brand clothes, no washing machine, no electricity at all, no water pipes, etc.

2. Because when you work on a farm for yourself, you keep 100% of your work. When you work for a company, it keeps most of your work for itself and gives you some compensation in return that depends on a combination of “how much do you need for living” and “how easily could you find another job”.

Being self employed helps. My workday doesn’t end at set time - it ends when I’m done. Sometimes that’s 10am, sometimes 7pm. Then if I feel like I’ve worked too much and could use a vacation I just don’t schedule any work for the rest of the week/next few weeks.

Now don’t get me wrong, I do work a lot but it doesn’t feel like work really because I have total control of everything I do and I’m doing exactly what I want to be doing. What also helps is that I manipulate the physical world - not bits on a computer. When I’m done I can see what I’ve built and on top of all that I get genuine gratitude for it. Lots of it actually - people are awesome.

Compared to pre-WW2 era, the work week and day has decreased from 12 hours/day, 6 days per week, thanks to the more militant labor movement.

In more recent decades, productivity has increased significantly, so we should be able to produce the same amount as before, with less labor: https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

But I’ll let you guess who is cashing in the extra profit from your work. Tip: it’s not you.

Yeah, but the trade off was that you were bound to the land and social hierarchy was much more rigidly enforced. Your pay was mostly in food and accommodations unless you were in a trade, nobility, or the clergy.

Why do people work more? Because in an industrial setting, the methods of compensation and employer responsibilities are vastly different. Employers are incentivized to treat labor as any other good and will try to lower that cost where possible. In contrast, if you’re a form of bondage, your employer is more likely to treat you like capital.

Man, I get where you’re coming from, it all seems endless and stupid.

I was just thinking about this the other day in fact, but then imagined what life was like as a hunter gatherer. The search never stops for food, there is rarely an abundance, and nothing to keep that abundance from rotting away when you have it.

Every creation we’ve ever made is to simplify our lives and/or to protect them. Building those things increase abundance and leisure time for awhile, but then the birth rate goes up and we need to build more. Building better communication (to simplify our lives) meant that more people from farther away need stuff, so we need to increase production, so more workers are required. It’s a feedback loop.

Some world events pause or reverse this loop for awhile, but it never stops. If you want these things that help around the house so you don’t have to do them, that costs money, so you work.

I’ve seen stories of people who just move out to the woods for decades, but though they are ‘independent’ from the man, they’re still struggling day to day and often end up stealing stuff that others bought so they can get by, or relying on common taxpayer services when things go awry.

I think it’s simply a part of the universe. I learned once that life isn’t the opposite of entropy, it’s a small opposing force that itself decays. Something something rage against the dying of the light. Anyway, /rantoff