After seeing a megathread praising Mao Zedong, an actual mass killer, and a post about a guy saying “99% of westerners are 100000000000% sure they know what happened in ‘Tiny Man Square’ […] the reasons for this are complex and involve propaganda […],” I am genuinely curious what leads people to this belief system. Even if propaganda is involved when it comes to Tiananmen Square, it doesn’t change the atrocities that were/are committed everywhere else in China.

I am all for letting people believe what they want but I am lost on why one would deliberately praise any authoritarian system this hard.

Can someone please help me understand why this is such a large and prominent community? How have these ideals garnered such a following outside of China?

EDIT: Thank you to everyone who has responded! This thread has been very insightful :)

  • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    What you are seeing in ‘tankie’ and “read theory” communities is an anti scientific epistemic style that treats ideology as a filter that outranks evidence. When they say the reasons are “complex” and involve propaganda, they are not doing ordinary source criticism that checks documents, reconciles contradictions, and updates beliefs under constraint.

    In the sciences, “theory” is a deliberately fragile summary of what has survived contact with data, it must expose itself to being wrong through clear predictions, and good practice means you actively cultivate the ability to withhold belief when the evidence is thin or messy; in a lot of sociology, and especially in Marxist derived subcultures, “theory” often functions less like a falsifiable model and more like a lens, a vocabulary, or even a doctrine that tells you ahead of time what counts as evidence and what must be discounted as “ideology,” which flips the direction of inference so that evidence is recruited to serve the framework rather than constrain it.

    Tankies are invoking a built in rule that inconvenient data about a favored regime can be dismissed as structurally tainted by bourgeois institutions, Western media, liberal academia, or intelligence services

    That move makes the worldview functionally unfalsifiable, because counterevidence is reclassified as propaganda while any supportive anecdote is treated as proof. Historically this connects to Marxist Leninist political practice where the vanguard party claims privileged access to historical truth and where “correct line” competes with open inquiry, so truth becomes something defended for its political usefulness rather than tested for its correspondence with reality.

    The Cold War did involve real propaganda and information warfare on multiple sides, and that kernel of truth gets inflated into a blanket permission slip to disregard any hostile reporting and to treat doubt as ideological contamination. Online this becomes a status ritual in which fluency in canonical texts substitutes for empiricism, and where moral anger at capitalism plus anti imperial identity incentives push people to defend any state positioned against “the West.”

    The result is that atrocities are minimized, rationalized as necessary, or outright denied, not because the evidence is genuinely ambiguous but because the community’s habits convert theory into a replacement for falsifiable claims.

    • Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
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      8 months ago

      That’s a very long and convoluted way of saying “tankies treat communist theory as dogma”. As a tankie: I didn’t become a tankie by reading theory, I became a tankie by reading demonstrable facts.

      I don’t support the Soviet Union because “it followed Marx and Lenin”, I support the Soviet Union because it provided universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, it abolished unemployment, it guaranteed housing and abolished homelessness, it created the lowest levels of economic inequality seen in the history of the region, it defeated Nazism and saved tens of millions from extermination, it almost tripled life expectancy and saved tens of millions from abject poverty, hunger and disease, and it gave support to emancipatory anticolonial projects everywhere in the globe. Running the numbers is not “atrocity minimization” as you claim, it’s pragmatic experimentalism.

      For me, it’s actually backwards: it just so happens that the projects that in my view have achieved the most liberating and emancipatory goals in history were following Marxist doctrine, which for the unfamiliar, is explicitly materialist and experimental in nature.

      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        It’s been fun to watch the tankies dribble in and do exactly what they are accused of. Thanks for going along with it and making everyone here’s point for them.

        • Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
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          8 months ago

          Your original comment (translated to understandable English from your pompous-ass style): “tankies treat theory as dogma, disregard empirical evidence and data as propaganda, and mold their worldview as a contest to see who’s more anti-western”.

          My reply: “me being a tankie is actually the result of data comparisons between capitalist and AES states for the measurable empirical improvements in quality of life and the reduction in victims, together with the support for emancipatory projects elsewhere”

          Your reply: “tHaNkS foR pRoViNg My PoInT”

            • Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
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              8 months ago

              epistemic style that treats ideology as a filter that outranks evidence

              cultivate the ability to withhold belief when the evidence is thin or messy

              flips the direction of inference so that evidence is recruited to serve the framework rather than constrain it

              competes with open inquiry

              status ritual in which fluency in canonical texts substitutes for empiricism

              Imagine unironically typing like that, lmfao

                • Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
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                  8 months ago

                  Surely the proletarian way of writing is overly pompous using obscure latinisms?

                  And no, I don’t make a habit of mocking people for how they type, my original response was detailed and serious, but when the commenter above decided to become a smug shit, I lost any reason to respect them.

                  • AlexanderTheDead@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    I mean, yes, actually, the pseudo-intellectualism that people like me demonstrate, (which maybe includes a pompous vocabulary to you “actually educated” folk), is the proletarian way of writing. Surely you’re not implying that someone privileged enough to get a college education AND spend their time online demeaning people is the proletarian speaker in this conversation?

                    You lost any reason to respect them? Crazy low barrier. You sure are a person of the people.

                    See, I’m guilty of that kinda stuff, too. And I’m annoying and preachy like you, too.

    • Go read “on practice” and “on contradiction” by mao zedong. Hilarious conjecturing based purely on vibes, nothing to back anything up. The fact that you’re waxing on about tankies getting radicalised by ignoring data while ignoring every “tankie” telling their story about radicalisation in this very thread and not presenting anything to back up your steep claims makes it pure comedy.