As far as publishers are concerned, the single greatest cancer they face is the resale market. When a store sells a new game for £60, the publisher makes about £20, and the store gets between £15-20, depending on how they choose to price it. The rest is the cost of manufacturing and shipping. (These are rounded estimates, it varies)
Then, a week later, when someone trades that game in and the store resells it for $40, they get all of that, and the publisher gets nothing.
From their perspective, that’s basically theft, which is why they’ve been trying for decades to put a stop to it, which they can’t, or at least make more money from secondary sales by bundling single-use codes for “bonus” content that really should be part of the main game, which people who buy preowned will have to shell out extra for.
So that’s what getting rid of physical media is all about. If they get rid of the discs and cartridges, that market vanishes.
Please don’t mistake this explanation as an excuse. All of the platform holders have had the means to kill off the retail market and usher customers onto their digital storefronts for at least a decade. All they had to do was pass on even a fraction of the savings they make selling digitally, which cuts out the manufacturing, shipping, and retailer costs, onto the customer. But they haven’t. Games cost the same on the Playstation Store as they do on the Gamestop Shelf. Sometimes more!
They could have used the carrot, but pure greed means they’re now opting for the stick.
Edit, Supplemental Question: This is my first post on Lemmy, and the responses have me wanting to clarify something- Is everyone on this platform fucking mental?
Lemmy truly is a psychotic leftist’s playground
🏴☠️
🫃
They could have used the carrot, but pure greed means they’re now opting for the stick.
By raising the prices for all their games and raising them again for physical copies, Nintendo decided the carrot or stick alone just wasn’t profitable enough, and thus chose both.
That… uh… what?
Do you not understand the “carrot and stick” metaphor?
You listed three times Nintendo used the “stick” then claimed they opted to use both, I assume in an attempt to sound clever.
Does everyone on this platform have long covid or something, because these replies are really worrying!
Anyway, yeah, Nintendo suck ass, well done.
The $60 → $70 price increase was just Nintendo being greedy, so the metaphorical “carrot” in this context is raising the price of physical copies relative to digital copies to $80 to make them seem like a good deal in comparison (diminishing physical sales further as an excuse to get rid of them entirely), while the “stick” is the game key cards that take any meaning away from owning physical media in the first place.
In any case, disagreement is no reason to insult the intelligence of other users.
Fair enough, sorry.
I had just finished reading the top voted response, which says Sony killing discs is about billionaires fucking children and may have misdirected my consternation toward you.
They’re alluding to the inherent entitlement to systematic abuse that is a feature not a bug of capitalism.
If you think lefties being crass and exasperated online is us being batshit lunatics maybe Lemmy isn’t for you. Most online communication and aggregation that most people use on a daily basis is hyper-corporate, so the alternative being full of the people who don’t feel welcome there or are censored there or feel cast off from there shouldn’t surprise you.
you’re replying to
TrickDacy@lemmy.world’s latest alt… It’s soo obvious when you look at his profileI think anyone who sees a post about the videogame market and immediately launches into a screed about billionaire pedophiles isn’t really helping whichever political viewpoint they purport to hold, and likely deserved having been “cast off.”
You can still resell the game key card, so it doesn’t kill the secondary market, though…
They will still become worthless once Nintendo shuts down the Switch 2 servers, making piracy the only viable form of game preservation at that point beyond whichever means Nintendo will have to get people to buy the games a second time on a new platform.
Switch to pc. Walled gardens are inherently problematic.
While usually good advice, that is a pretty tone deaf thing to say to someone complaining specifically about the death of physical media.
Steam very successfully destroyed the resale and lending of PC games and the same approach with digital rights management of downloads will do the same to the consoles.
I’m not convinced it wasn’t mostly dead before Steam, TBH. I mean I guess there was “lending” (read: copying), but there was never a “GameStop for PC games” the way there was for console games. And even the “lending” was somewhat curtailed by CD-keys and account registration before Steam existed.
Used games held the console market in balance. You knew if you didn’t like a game, you could trade it and get something back, or at least buy a cheap used copy if you weren’t sure on a title.
The PC game market is kept in balance by constant discounting and availability. You manage risk by saying “I’ll wait a few years and get it for $4.98 instead.”
The presence of secomdary sellers (Fanatical, Humble Bundle etc) and even distinct markets (GoG, itch, service games that sell through their own accounts) means Steam still doesn’t have the same market-defining power Sony will in a post-disc world.
Not 100%, you can share your (almost) whole digital Steam game library via family share. There are very few games that block this feature.
Steam very successfully destroyed the resale and lending of PC games
What?!
You think before Steam people could resell and loan PC games like console?!
Why just make shit up? You know Steam ain’t that old and people remember pre-Steam…
Right?
I think steam might be older than BrightCandle@lemmy.world…
You forgot the leading
and your username mention turned into a mailto link.
single-use codes and ‘activation’ were around and gaining traction before steam came about. but steam did help dig the hole and put the some of the nails in the coffin.
Dude cdkeys were already a thing before steam. There wasn’t really ever a secondhand pc game market.
Of course there was. It was very much alive on our schoolyard. (A “market” doesn’t need a man in the middle siphoning off a profit for it to exist.)
You could write down CD keys and put them in the case, you know?
That didn’t work. If you tried to play online with a CD key that someone else had already used, it wouldn’t let you.
That was a small minority of games. There were video games before everybody had the internet. But even later, not every game is or was an online game. Actually most weren’t, because plans were expensive and connection quality was horseshit. Also, games used to support player run dedicated servers where no such checks existed. Hell, you didn’t even have to use the game’s own server browsers in many cases, there were 3rd party solutions for that.
There were actually a lot of online games back in the day since lan was pretty common, but your point is mostly valid. Unless the game had online features the cdkey could be reused.
G*mers made their bed. And are now complaining that it smells like their shit.
Fucking obviously…
Did people really just figure out their hate for discs was the hate for resellers and rentals?
Fucking hell man, next you’re gonna tell us they sell consoles at a lost to trap consumers in their ecosystem of expensive games and not out of the goodness of their heart.
If you just fucking realized this, it’s better than not.
But it doesn’t mean you should be listened to, because everyone that actually cares enough to string two thoughts together figured this out fucking years/decades ago.
Please don’t mistake this explanation as an excuse.
Threadiverse does this often.
It even uses the “worth reading” system as an incorrect way of saying “I dis/agree.” Can’t wait for pylova to become the norm.trades that game in and the store resells it for $40, they get all of that, and the publisher gets nothing.
In some countries, resale laws exist to deter this. So this argument is kinda naught.
I’m new to Lemmy, so I literally don’t understand your first point, but-
In some countries, resale laws exist to deter this. So this argument is kinda naught.
I don’t see how. The only resale laws that I can find in the US, UK, Eu or even Japan refer to prohibiting Digital Resales. Even in Japan, publishers haven’t been able to prohibit the reselling of physical games.
So no, the point stands; Publishers want to get rid of physical media in order to push people onto digital licenses, which are more restrictive and non-transferable.
in Japan
US
UK
EU
don’t understand your first point
Upvotes & Downvotes in weighted aggregation mean “This is worth reading or not.” Many people still abuse this to mean “I [dis]like your comment/post.” Pylova forks already have reactions to express the latter, and maintaining the former. “You can upvote and like a comment too now!”
I have no idea where you’re getting your info, or if you’re somehow misunderstanding me, but literally everything you just said is wrong.
It is 100% legal to resell any physical media you own in all of those territories. If I buy a game on a disc, I can then do whatever the hell I like with that disc, including sell it back to the place that sold it to me, who can then sell it to somebody else.
This isn’t a matter of opinion we can debate, it’s clearly settled law. If you disagree, you’re wrong. End of discussion.
As for the whole upvote/downvote thing, I think I understand what you mean now, but in doing so I care even less as I was simply adding a point of clarification which you’re focusing way too much on in order to debate the virtues of differing platforms, which is both boring and tiring.
You’re a very frustrating entity to deal with.
Goodbye.
Ignorantia juris non excusat.
Get a lawyer here before you make yourself more ignorant than you’re.
You’re a very frustrating entity to deal with.
Welcome to the real worldwide chump. You either let governments oppress your freedoms, or liberate press. Either way, your raw arguments are naught. If you’re not rolling authoritarian heads
, you’re really wasting everyone’s time.Tells me to get a lawyer, then calls for the end of authoritarianism.
Check your carbon monoxide alarm, pal.
So what do you praxis‽ Reactionism‽
What causes these kinds of responses? Brain damage? Meth?
There is more than one benefit to ending physical media.
- The end of the resale market
- The end of paying for physical distribution.
- Pushing users toward online gaming so that they can pay for microtransactions.
- Live service games and seasons that require a subscriptions.
- The sale of hardware that will allow them to charge more for consoles/Harddrives.
- Game streaming (which requires an internet connection, and allows them to gather information about users).
- Game streaming that requires a whole separate online subscription.
If you thought it was just about the resale market I have some public landmarks for sale.
- Planned obsolesence.
This is so much bigger than the secondary resale market, which is a small added bonus for them
The move from physical media; the price of computer components rising beyond reasonable levels; the locking down of hardware; the locking down of software distribution methods; the inevitability of de-anonymizing all Internet users…
The capitalist class has had enough of your criticism. We discovered their little criminal playground that preyed on children, we discovered how they hide their wealth without contributing back to society, we even discovered how government programs meant to “keep us safe” are used to exploit everyone on earth.
You think Sony ending physical discs is about video games? Brother it’s about the mind prison they’re designing to keep you in line while they fuck preteens on yachts until this whole planet burns to the ground
Extrapolating a consumer usability problem into grandiose, vague fearmongering of the ultra-rich Epstein class isn’t helping anyone. It’s more likely to make people defeatist.
If you actually care about things like tax havens, or believe they have a relation to this issue, show people what they can do to fight them.
Dave’s not here man
Alternativelly, multiple subgroups within the power elites can support some of the same things for different reasons.
It’s perfectly logical that, for example, intrusive tracking under the excuse of Age Checks “to protect the children” is supported by the Pedophiles in the Elites because it helps them detected early and suppress attempts to change the very system which gives them immunity for their crimes, non-Pedophile people in positions of power support it for very similar reasons only they want the system protected so that they can stay in power, maybe because they like power or because of the money and priviledges they get from their position in that system, and big companies selling media to users support it because it lets them more strongly bind copies of that media to specific users hence people can’t share it (for example, two sibblings in the same house using the same device can’t share a single copy of a game) so those companies sell more copies hence make more money.
Reducing most people’s choices can serve different stakeholders who have different desires and for whom that reduction of the choices of consumers serves different objectives and yields different returns.
Trying to come up with a Theory of Everything for it is excessivelly reductionist and even simplistic - just because it’s easier to get one’s mind around a “they’re all the same” explanation than around something like what I’m putting forward, doesn’t mean the former is the right explanation.
G*mers spent two decades filling their digital libraries. Killing brick and mortar stores. Pirating games.
And now they complain about the lack of physical releases by a company they claim to hate?
Thats bullshit.
Gamestop killed physical stores. They bought out who they could, and did everything they could to crush the rest and push them out of business, until nothing but gamestop was left. and gamestop is an awful fucking company.
So, of course, perpetually online idiots decided to worship it and turn it into a meme stock that brought in unfathomable amounts of undeserved money.
So many simps for valve who don’t understand how valve fucked us all 20 years ago.
Just remember if valve cared at fucking skill they could offer you a resellable license.
But yeah, fuck Windows, because reasons. Lemmy.txt
I don’t want to resell anything, I don’t care.
Valve has been very good to me. I can plan by my library on any machine I want anywhere I want. They have kept titles available for me to download that the publisher took down.
They keep my save files, they provide overlays in game, they provide a game recording and chat system.
Everything I buy from them is so deeply narked down that reselling isn’t even worthwhile anyways.
On top of all of that they contribute to a free os, including giving back upstream.
That’s not dumping, those are just facts. Basically so far it’s the best gaming service yet.
I do worry it will go away, but all the games are also backed up locally so it really doesn’t matter that much.
By the way: Valve works well in conjunction with game devs. My kids buy box sets that come with physical items (guides, books, stickers, figures, and discs) AND have valve keys. So they get the best of both worlds. Supporting indy devs is far more important than arguing about valves position in all of this.
You okay?
So, like, don’t buy things that aren’t worth the cost, man.
Library memberships are free.
So, I assume you’re making the point that, instead of buying games I should just get a library card and borrow them for free?
Well for one, that’s not a service all libraries offer, but even if they did, you’re raising it in response to a discussion about physical media being phased out.
How is “just get a library card” gonna solve the problem when the libraries won’t have a disc for me to borrow?
Or you might just be making the point that games are dumb and we should just read books. Hard to tell.
I was not making either of those points. My first sentence was my point. My second sentence was a general statement implied to be a suggestion.
But I see from the votes that lemmy is full of people who prefer to throw money away.
So is piracy.
and what’s your answer to ancient cds and brds?
Cry cry cry about the end of physical games, but what’s your answer for replacement?
Go on… Let me know… what’s your answer? Your magical solution?
Downvote me to oblivion, but you don’t fucking know do you? I certainly don’t.
You want physical games to exist forever, but there is no modern physical medium to replace 30 year old garbage optical discs.
We’re at a crisis point, so figure it out!
A solution exists. Every downvote is an admission that “I have no imagination”
A solution exists.
Ok then what is it?
Every downvote is an admission that “I have no imagination”
Lol sure that’s what it is.
Shitting your pants isn’t a clever response
Interesting so you have no answer yourself, only bile and weird things to say, which don’t near making a shred of sense. Awesome talk. Enjoy the meth, I guess.
I have shit that’s older than I am that plays without apparent problem.
Maybe the problem is your overactive imagination
So… Why would discs need to be replaced?
Alright, so let’s say we want to replace disks anyway. So… You forgot flash memory exists?
It’s kinda ironic when you say nobody has a solution or an imagination, but… Well… You clearly seem to missing the obvious solution to the problem you personally invented.
Downvote bcuz your annoying
Who said anything about expecting games to last forever?
And in what possible way Is “Discs will ONLY last 30 years, so we should just get rid of them!” A sane thought to voice?
Is everyone on this platform off their fucking meds?
Is everyone on this platform off their fucking meds?
The first piece of advice I’d give to anyone new to Lemmy or Piefed is that the “block” functionality is essential. Don’t hesitate to block users, communities, and even whole instances. It significantly improves the experience.
Aah. I didn’t know what you meant with “mental” until I found this comment you’re responding to. I get it now.
Who said anything about expecting games to last forever?
YOU! You’re screaming it fucking you fucking piss babies! that’s all you can fucking cry, cry cry!
“Give me my forever games!”
Not what was said, but sure let’s explore that anyway.
Why not have games that can be played forever? The only kind of people who’d see something wrong with that are corporations. You’re not a corporate shill, are you?
We also invented read-only pressed quarts memory that’ll hold information for 50,000 years. Sounds like a good place to starts, right?
there is no modern physical medium to replace 30 year old garbage optical discs.
So then don’t replace them :)
Why do they need to be replaced?
Tell it to the crybabies throwing tantrums over Sony stopping production of physical discs
I am also upset they are ending disc production.
I don’t understand why they need to be phased out or ‘replaced’ as a medium other than greed.
You’ve said in other posts that physical media can often have a 30 year lifespan, but that’s more than Sony’s digital lifespans. You typically only get ~10-15 years for Sony’s digital services (upfront: I asked gemini about this) which is half the lifespan.
Why does optical need replacing with something else if that something is worse?
We’re not at any kind of crisis point.
Blu-ray discs are still perfectly usable. A quad-layer Blu-ray could still hold a modern AAA title like Call of Duty, and a good many indie titles. Maybe it won’t be able to hold GTAVI, but we’ve put games on two discs in pretty much every console generation.
After AAA games get too big for Blu-rays, there’s still flash memory. Nintendo has been using flash carts for two console gens with no problem; there’s no reason Sony and Microsoft couldn’t design their own flash cart slot. The nice thing about those, you probablynever have to change compatibility due to file size ever again; since flash memory is always getting smaller. And if you design the physical object correctly, you can leave room for a lot of extra chips.
But that’s not all. Nobody would be complaining about the end of hard copies if the publisher just gave you the files to do with as you please. No DRM, no “anti-cheat” crippleware, no day one updates that finish the actual game, no launcher.
Deliver that via online service, add some retro game preservation projects, and now you’re a Good Old beloved pillar of online game storefronts.
Blu-ray discs are still perfectly usable
So are VHS tapes and vinyl records
But I guess all these people having seizures because PlayStation discs are getting discontinued is meaningless?
Save your diatribes for someone who gives a shit what you have to say
Sony are stopping production of optical drives, of which the Playstation was a tiny proportion.
So they say
One thing to point out is, consumers haven’t gained so much from the secondhand market; GameStop quite often took a lot of the value of the turn-in copy, and even pushed 2hand games as new.
There’s hobby stores where this isn’t the case, and obviously friends can trade/sell in private. But it’s not a lot of what tended to happen.
When looking at that $40 resale, some publishers had instead suggested “Hey, how about we sell for $35 to both of you, and neither of you can resell it.” That nets the publisher more money, and means the second person pays less. Obviously, that relies on the publisher deciding that reduction. But it’s hardly the only consumer good/service whose price is controlled by its maker that way. Try reselling used bread, or used movie tickets.
