I left the hospital with a drain in me.
Had to follow up to get it taken out - they only did drain removals one afternoon of the week. Something that took me thirty seconds to do when I got fed up and did it myself.
What would happen if everyone cancelled their health insurance and stopped paying outrageous surprise medical bills?
Because doing the “right” thing and hoping it will get better someday isn’t working very well.
Some people would die. In the end the survivors would be far better off. Question is mostly how long it would take. Could the medical/insurance industry make it without changing a thing for more than a month without health insurance? More than 6?
Some people would die.
That’s the hard part. But as a random pedantic internet asshole, I have to point out that the current system is also causing deaths.
$35,000 USD for surgery is on the low end. The US healthcare system is a complete shitshow.
The post doesn’t mention surgery; it’s just the ER trip.
I believe it means $35,000 AFTER insurance.
Yeah I don’t hear the long waiting lines argument anymore
Just out of curiosity, what are American wait times like for the uninsured? Infinite?
Your insured status has (allegedly) no impact on wait times in the US.
They’ll hound you for payment while you’re actively being seen by doctors, but they won’t delay you just because you can’t pay.
- Have been to the ER uninsured in the US
Personally, I’ve never had particularly long waits in the ER, but I only ever went to the ER when something was seriously wrong.
But it can really depend on where you are, time of year, holiday weekend, etc etc. Hospitals do triage, So chest pains and broken legs tend to be seen before someone there with a runny nose, and the runny nose person will probably have a significantly longer wait time than someone coming in with the left side of their body sagging and uncontrollable. .
It depends on the situation. Emergency rooms are required by law to stabilize emergency medical issues, regardless of the patient’s potential ability to pay. This is because there used to be a big issue with ERs dumping non-paying patients. If the hospital didn’t think a patient could pay, security would literally wheel them across the street, then just leave them there to figure their own shit out.
ERs run on triage, (and lots of people go to the ER for things which could be handled by an urgent care or family doctor instead), which means wait times entirely depend on your specific situation. Mildly upset stomach? You’ll probably be waiting at least a few hours, especially if it’s a busy night with lots of more urgent patients. Chest pains with a history of heart disease? You’ll have EKG leads stuck to you before you’re even finished telling the intake nurse what your issue is.
And the big key thing is that ERs are required to stabilize an emergency medical issue. They aren’t required to provide follow-up care, long-term support, etc… If you show up with a cut that needs stitches, they’ll stitch you up. But they’ll tell you to follow up with your regular doctor to make sure it’s healing properly, and to remove the stitches in a few weeks. Don’t have a regular doctor because you’re uninsured? Good luck, hope it doesn’t get infected, then maybe chew some Tylenol and remove the stitches in your bathroom.
ERs run on triage, (and lots of people go to the ER for things which could be handled by an urgent care or family doctor instead), which means wait times entirely depend on your specific situation. Mildly upset stomach? You’ll probably be waiting at least a few hours,
Canada is the same, I went in bleeding badly and was seen right away. But another time I went in just needing my finger sewn and it took around 3 hours to be seen.
Currently, emergency rooms are bound by law to provide care to all patients, regardless of insurance status. Busy emergency rooms will triage patients, ensuring those who need care the most get it first. Unfortunately for uninsured patients, the hospital will hand them a bill as they leave; something simple as wound cleaning and a few stitches will run upwards of several thousand dollars. That total can exceed tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on level care and length of stay.
A family member of mine recently had a medical episode while we were at a restaurant. Spontaneous syncope followed by prolonged lightheartedness and loss of balance. The ambulance ride to the hospital alone cost over $7000. They arrived at the ER around 4pm and was released shortly before midnight. Within a couple hours of arriving my family member felt and that they had fully recovered, but the ER would not release her until a doctor was available to bring her into the back and discuss her test results. Around 10pm the doctor finally called her back; they found nothing out of the ordinary in her blood work, heart seemed to be working fine. We waited two more hours before they would release her.
The bill for the ambulance, ER care, and about a baker’s dozen of various fees and incidentals, was over $23000. Thankfully they had insurance, which covered most of it, but they still had to pay several thousand out of pocket for going to an “out of network” hospital. That alone is infuriating because not only is the entire concept of in-or-out of network medical providers a predatory practice, the choice of which ER to go to was up to the paramedics, it was never up to us. Even if it was up to us, we had no way of quickly knowing which local hospitals, if any, were “in network.”
No, just like anywhere else, wait times are based on urgency. A severed limb will be taken instantly, a bloody nose will wait until there’s an empty bed. Doesn’t matter if you’re insured or not.
Uninsured will just get billed a full amount after the fact (payable in installments to the hospital), vs insured who might have to pay a copay, and then a few month later will get billed a reduced amount, after the insurance company chooses what they’ll cover.
I speak from experience. I was uninsured for a short time, and of course my appendix chose that time to rupture. I was admitted and in the ER instantly. Spent three days recovering in the hospital. Before I left the hospital had a bill for me. It was very high. I set up a payment plan. Eventually I stopped making payments, because I was broke. Hospital sent my bill to a collector. I blew them off.
Was unable to get a loan for a house for 10 years.
So insane that they see “oh he didn’t pay 10s of thousands for an unexpected medical debt, must be irresponsable with money.”
It’s largely because the “tens of thousands” is usually a result of being uninsured. And if you’re uninsured, it’s usually because you’re unemployed. And lenders tend to get squirmy at the idea of giving a loan to anyone who hasn’t been fully employed since the day they were born.
There was actually a rule implemented by the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau shortly after the pandemic, to prevent medical debt from impacting your credit history. Because lots of Americans were suddenly finding themselves in an awful job market with tons of medical debt from being sick. But last year, the fifth circuit court of appeals (the one that presides over Texas and Louisiana, and which is stacked with conservative judges as part of the Southern Strategy) voided the rule and allowed medical debt to appear on credit reports again. The ruling from the conservative court also prohibited the CFPB from implementing similar rules in the future.
There was actually a rule implemented by the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau shortly after the pandemic, to prevent medical debt from impacting your credit history. Because lots of Americans were suddenly finding themselves in an awful job market with tons of medical debt from being sick. But last year, the fifth circuit court of appeals (the one that presides over Texas and Louisiana, and which is stacked with conservative judges as part of the Southern Strategy) voided the rule and allowed medical debt to appear on credit reports again. The ruling from the conservative court also prohibited the CFPB from implementing similar rules in the future.
you have to wonder what kind of soulless, hateful, worthless pile of shit roughly packed into a humanoid shaped bag would look at medical debt not ruining peoples lives and go “You know what, thats not right. people need to be more fucking miserable” and sue to get it overturned.
Never waited more than 2 hours. I’ve waited longer at a walk-in clinic.
But maybe it’s because I only go when it’s an emergency?
A comparison of Canada vs the USA is hard. All my instruments need to be recalibrated for imperial shithole country scales, but the conclusion is always the same: THE USA SUCKS.
And that is just the referral
The only issues with Canadian Health Care system is american capitalism and “business”.
If your leg is hanging off you don’t have to wait 12 hours. Idiot don’t know about triage
It’s unfortunately common for some to assume that they are the only sick person in the entire healthcare system.
Um, excuse me! Don’t you know how important I think I am!
Some Canadians bash out system but usually its those that don’t get what triage is.
Like my wife felt I’llwee went to emerge, maybe waited 4-6 hours. Low blood sugar doctor recommended eating higher protein snacks in between meals.
But when they figured out I had cancer it was fast track for everything.
No point in explaining. If you go to the ER in America you’re waiting 12 hours, at least, unless you’re actively dying.
Oh and it will cost you a nice new car.
When the Australian Emergency department keeps me waiting for less than 15 minutes, I really start to worry.
Yeah the reason I haven’t waited that long in the ER isn’t because I’m American. Ok actually it is, as an American I’m not going to the ER unless I’m certain I have to. Head trauma, blood loss, issues breathing, anaphalaxis… I think a bone might be broken? I can go to the urgent care in the morning
In america you die
Lol if you got a real problem in Canada, you’re in and out. No fucking around. Trauma, injury, blood everywhere, yah you get stabilized and attention right away. Hell, I’ve gotten into a car accident. Bad one, no injuries though, got home started to feel rough after the adrenalin kicked out went to hospital said what’s up, in 40 min I had xray, CT scan, and an all clear, see ya.
You come with a flu? Go sit your ass down maybe they will see you tommorow.
I had heart arrythmia. Was in within 5 minutes and hooked up to monitors. If Im in for something less serious, I’ll wait. No big deal.
Americans dont seem to get that when we complain about our health system, it doesnt mean we want theirs. We want our issues fixed, not more issues and going bankrupt because of a small medical problem.
The thing about Canadian care is that it usually works well for urgent and life saving care. If you don’t like the wait for non urgent items, you have to option to pay - you just need to travel somewhere to get it done. The media likes to go on about the cases when people die while waiting but some of them were so sick they weren’t going to make it anyway. Having quick access to ER isn’t a guarantee that you will survive the heart attack symptoms you’ve been ignoring for the last month.
the heart attack symptoms you’ve been ignoring for the last month.
Uh huh, what about all the times it’s the medical cretins who are doing the ignoring?
ego of medical professionals is something thats a little tougher to control systematically.
It should be as easy as caving their heads in with a tire iron.
People who think America has better healthcare are either wealthy, or don’t have any health issues they deal with regularly.
Even upper middle class Americans have shitty healthcare. But many or most of them are proud of learning the system so they refuse to consider that they could have been getting fucked their whole lives.
That’s a good point. If I had a dollar for every time someone smugly explained a horrific aspect of American healthcare like I’m an idiot for not knowing it, well, I still wouldn’t have enough dollars to go see a doctor, but it has happened a lot.
Or they haven’t experienced healthcare elsewhere, so all they have for comparison is what pharma is talking them
