• deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
      0·
      2 months ago

      That site is unusable on FF mobile.

      It has some craptastic scroll animation thing happening and have disabled the FF reader mode somehow.

      Which is a shame, I’d like to have read it :-(

    • Dymonika@lemmy.ml
      0·
      2 months ago

      I still don’t understand what it is and I read it. Oh, well. *continues with Mint*

      • zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.comBannedEnglish
        0·
        2 months ago

        It is a discussion about the UNIX philosophy and architecture and it is not about functionality. That’s why it seems to be a bit short-sighted. However, I do understand both sides, but I would never go this far and create a website to promote my views and opinions. It is as if you had a discussion between team emacs and team vim.

        Even though that the reliability of OpenRC is 0.00000001% higher, they keep forgetting about operational costs. And since my day only has 24h, I’d rather be able to copy&paste an installation script from the Docker website (which includes systemd commands), instead of manually writing it and losing 30min of that day.

        But you know, to each their own. I love OpenRC, I love systemd.

    • Bluewing@lemmy.world
      0·
      2 months ago

      The only distro I recognize on their list of systemd-free distros is PCLinux. I actually used it for a bit a long time ago. Not a bad distro, but not a great one either. So I moved on.

    • arc99@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      2 months ago

      It’s like the Amish but with operating systems. Technology has advanced this far but must advance no further.

  • Jul@piefed.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    0·
    2 months ago

    I avoid relying on it too much and don’t make any especially custom configurations. I honestly don’t like it. But the alternatives just never really seemed much better, so I use it by default. If there were a truly good replacement with good documentation and examples, I’d adopt it.

    • arc99@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      2 months ago

      The only thing I didn’t like about systemd was the unfamiliarity of the commands. Typing systemctl and a verb and a service and some more arguments feels a bit clunky.

      But otherwise it all seems to make sense to me - lots of little commands running with least privilege, very simple description of services in unitary files, secure binary logging with proper filternig, proper utilisation of cgroups to reliably kill processes and enforce limits, parallel startup/shutdown etc.

      Most of the objections I’ve see to it online seem miss the point and ignore answers which would solve or refute their objections.

    • Ŝan • 𐑖ƨɤ@piefed.zipEnglish
      0·
      2 months ago

      He presents well, but many of his arguments beg þe question – þey assume false premises. I’m not going to dissect þe entire hour-long video, but as an example þe main premise he starts wiþ is þat people who don’t like systemd don’t like it because it isn’t familiar. I doubt þis is true except in his BSD domain. I’ve been using systemd since before it grew into þe monstrosity it now is, and I’m equally comfortable writing systemd services and timers, and am familiar wiþ þe commands. I’ve learned to not like it as it’s grown and gotten worse, and I’d guess þat a survey of anti-systemd people will show most of þem use systemd enough þat þe presumption of disliking it because it’s “different” is wildly wrong.

      I also take exception to his discounting þe value of mix-and-match systems. It’s funny þat he disparages “contempt” and þen tosses out negative statements like “having to cobble togeþer a bunch of different pieces of software,” as if somehow diversity and choice is bad. It’s such a strange mentality for someone from þe BSD community.

    • Shanmugha@lemmy.world
      0·
      2 months ago

      *but I don’t want to be free like that, fixed it for you

      Every time I read anything from Lennart (systemd creator, as I understand), that’s some self-entitled crap

  • ThunderComplex@lemmy.today
    0·
    2 months ago

    I do as well and honestly after looking into the effort required to switch I’m not gonna. Altho my Linux doesn’t boot rn soooo… xD

    • BladeFederation@piefed.socialEnglish
      0·
      2 months ago

      The effort required is to install a distros without it. That’s it. Some without it are even quite popular, like MX Linux.

      Clarification: I don’t care either way about systemd, just saying, it requires no effort to avoid.

      • ThunderComplex@lemmy.todayEnglish
        0·
        2 months ago

        Yeah I meant the effort required to change a already running distro to use something other than systemd seems too daunting. ofc if you have the luxury to reinstall a fresh distro its very easy

        • BladeFederation@piefed.socialEnglish
          0·
          2 months ago

          I’ve gotta say, I didn’t expect this argument on a Linux enthusiast sub in the Fediverse. A few hours to restore backup files and configuration files is not a luxury lol. I mean, I get really busy sometimes and don’t even have a few hours to spare to re-image, but damn. I find time eventually. You probably have a backup system in place already too. If you care enough to complain, you care enough to fix the problem.

          I am baffled by the “daunted” comment. I thought about commenting “skill issue”, but this just isnt even the case here. You’re already past that. You moved off Windows or macOS, you probably tried several distros before landing on one. I can’t imagine the venn diagram of people who care about systemd and the people who are afraid to try a new distros are anything but two separate circles. And I can assure you non-systemd distros are not really any different in practice. I think I ran into one niche app that wouldn’t work without systemd on antiX. Otherwise, same old same ole.

          • ThunderComplex@lemmy.today
            0·
            2 months ago

            Honestly this is just a me thing with my brain. I have VERY high PC setup inertia. If my system’s running, I’ll keep it that way. And if there’s a problem (like my current Linux being actually fucked), first reflex is to get a panic attack.
            Was probably wrong of me to generalize my inertia here especially in the Linux community so I’ll apologize for that.

            • BladeFederation@piefed.socialEnglish
              0·
              2 months ago

              Dang, everyone is so much nicer in the Fediverse. Now I feel like an asshole for poking fun at you a little bit. My bad. What error are you getting on boot BTW?

              • ThunderComplex@lemmy.todayEnglish
                0·
                2 months ago

                Nah it’s fine. Basically grub can see the SSD where the kernel lies and boot the kernel, then the kernel can’t see the drive its on anymore

                • BladeFederation@piefed.socialEnglish
                  0·
                  2 months ago

                  The first thing I would try is booting from a live USB, mounting the old install, regenerating inframfs then update GRUB from terminal (it may or may not let you from terminal in the GRUB menu also)

      • decolo@piefed.socialEnglish
        0·
        2 months ago

        Arch, Fedora, Debian/Ubuntu all use systemd. SteamOS/CachyOS are based off Arch. Bazzite is Fedora-based.

        If you use Linux for gaming, you are not going to have a good time avoiding systemd. It’s certainly true that some distributions don’t use it, but their market share is limited.

        It seems dismissive to ignore the trends and investment in the ecosystem going towards systemd based distributions.

          • decolo@piefed.socialEnglish
            0·
            2 months ago

            Your options are limited significantly if you want to avoid it, but yes, there are options. I use a steam deck primarily and while I can re install the OS, it’s a significant amount of fiddling for a worse experience.

            My issue with systemd is not that it’s ‘hard to use’ or anything. My issue is that it’s getting harder to avoid as time goes on.

            • juipeltje@lemmy.world
              0·
              2 months ago

              Yeah that’s true. On the desktop since i was already using more DIY-type distros it’s not that difficult to avoid it, but with a more specialized usecase like the steam deck it’s hard to find something that mimicks the SteamOS experience without using systemd, or at least there’s not an OOTB experience distro for that as far as i know. I’m still using the stock SteamOS on my deck for that reason, it doesn’t feel worth it to replace, especially since i only use mine to game and don’t tinker with it like my desktop.

        • notabot@piefed.socialEnglish
          0·
          2 months ago

          Debian works fine without systemd, there’s even a page in the wiki detailing how to install without it, or switch if you dud install systemd by mistake.

          • decolo@piefed.socialEnglish
            0·
            2 months ago

            Good to know, I honestly have never tried to use Debian (not counting Ubuntu occasionally for work)

        • BladeFederation@piefed.socialEnglish
          0·
          2 months ago

          As previously mentioned, I do not have a dog in this fight. I do not personally care if my distros has it or doesn’t have it. A lot of distros use systemd because they like it. If you don’t like systemd, you can use something else. If systemd starts to get really bad for some reason, less people will use it. That is the circle of life, and why open source works as a self correcting economy.

          Also, like… I do prefer to be up to date for gaming & optimizations from gaming focused distros. But if I am being honest, the single digit percent increases are not that noticeable vs something like MX Linux.

          • decolo@piefed.socialEnglish
            0·
            2 months ago

            I understand that you personally are fine with it, but this is apparently a trigger for me, so please accept my apology in advance for offering commentary.

            • if you don’t like it, you can use something else:

            This is only really true for desktop PC hobbyists. SteamOS is responsible for a huge spike of Linux usage recently and that is Systemd-only. it’s true that you can install something else but it’ll be a significantly worse user experience. This is the case for basically any handheld Linux device, and all corporate investment is going to systemd based distros.

            • if systemd starts to get bad, less people will use it:

            The alternatives are less polished and switching distros is a relatively costly proposition if you are not a hobbyist (in terms of opportunity cost and time spent without a functional computer). Handheld devices such as the steam deck are much less flexible as well.

            • BladeFederation@piefed.socialEnglish
              0·
              2 months ago

              I appreciate the apology in advance, but it is not necessary. I am happy to have a civilized conversation like we are having, even if we disagree.

              To my knowledge, the arguments against systemd boil down to:

              1. They recently added an option to ask for age verification, which distros do not have to use, and I believe they walked it back already.
              2. It goes against the values of Linux to have a singular project be responsible for many functions instead of doing one small thing well.
              3. It is large-ish for what it is, and could be more efficient with resources.

              Now I’m not here to tell you to care or not to care, that’s your own prerogative. But think about the type of people who WOULD care, given the context? Is it gamers who bought a Steam Deck off the shelf and may not even know what Linux is? Or is it a specific subset of Linux enthusiasts who are a specific subset of PC enthusiasts who are a specific subset of people who use Linux machines? I think we can both agree it is the latter 99.9% of the time.

              To your second point, you have more or less invalidated the 3rd possibility of not liking systemd. It simply works better in most cases. Alternatives are not that much worse or anything, that’s just what it is right now. COULD it potentially be better if it was the way we imagined it in our head? Maybe, but then just make your own version if you know how to make it better. But to really ANSWER your argument, by “less people will use it”, I mostly mean distro devs. It got forked immediately after the slightest hint of age verification. If it becomes an actual problem, you can bet it will swiftly be replaced by most distros, and non-tech people will not even realize it happened. Especially if that subset of Linux enthusiasts who don’t like it start jumping ship for others distros that don’t have it. Things change allll the time in Linux. Nothing is irreplaceable or unforkable.

  • AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.worldEnglish
    0·
    2 months ago

    It’s like that very very old joke…

    Geek: “So then I brought the girl home…”
    Excited crowd: “and then?”
    Geek: “then I pushed the keyboard and sat her on my desk…”
    Excited crowd: “woah, you have a PC? What processor do you have? Do you overclock? What cooling do you use?”

  • printf("%s", name);@piefed.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    0·
    2 months ago

    Nothing like a lewd late afternoon meme to stir up my anxiety and dysphoria. 😭

    Now, to the matter at hand. systemd is great. I only moved away from it because being handed all the automation on a silver platter was hampering my Linux learning. Everything had preconfigured .service files and [...]ctl commands.

    • jaybone@lemmy.zipEnglish
      0·
      2 months ago

      Not everything. Some times you have to write your own .service files.

      Then for a special kind of pain, learn how those file contents affect apparmor.

      (I’m looking at you, Transmission Gtk Daemon.)

  • Mikelius@lemmy.ml
    0·
    2 months ago

    Gentoo lured me into OpenRC a long time ago and it’s just basically my go to now. It’s just so easy and “feels” less bloated to me.