Initially sent to debian-private, shared here because I want the consequences of Debian fully embracing fascist-backed technology to be known.
That seems to be a bit far reached and naive. Hopefully Antoine isn’t driving cars, because there are several brands that were supported by Nazi’s at one time in the past.
Besides that, I think it is good to have a discussion about the use or LLM. I just think that the reason here is a bit unusual.
because there are several brands that were supported by Nazi’s at one time in the past.
The AI’s that most people use support fascists in the present.
Same goes for PayPal, and yet everybody keeps using it. Not saying that this is a reason to use Frontier models. But calling the whole technology fascist is simply not true.
That’s what a fascist would say
Surveillence is not fascist.
Do most people use nemotron models?
When the surveillance is being sold to fascist governments to identify, suppress and imprison dissidents, it is fascist.
The German Nazis stored people data on Hollerith punch cards supplied by US company IBM.
https://ahrp.org/30999-2/So maybe you should’ve started with that as your argument?
Brain rot comparison.
Buying a car does nothing to support fascists from the 1940s. Meanwhile paying meta/google etc or using their products directly funds their influence campaigns to hide crimes against humanity taking place every day.
So what is your suggestion? Where do you draw the line? Because obviously it is not just about LLM.
and the death blow is when more like-minded developers do the same… there won’t be enough left that would vote to change policy to try to lure some back.
Didn’t we have the same outrage and series of rage-quitting when SystemD was introduced?
Difference is, Systemd wasn’t specifically being used to facilitate fascist governments surveiling their populace or contribute to global warming like LLMs are.
Systemd wasn’t specifically being used to facilitate fascist governments surveiling their populace or contribute to global warming like LLMs are.
Well systemd does require electricity to run, so unless you’ve got your own solar panels its probably contributing to global warming in its own little way.
And the biggest models today are Chinese. Terribly oppressive and paranoid government but not fascist.
UhM aCkShUaLlY sYsTeMd DOES uSe ElEcTrIcItY, ChEcKmAte
Well, it is true 😅
Actual clown.
This motherfucker tries to pretend he’s not an AI evangelist and types shit like this.
Respect to Antoine. Having principles that are worth a damn is a rare trait amongst developers these days.
So Open-Source and FOSS projects collectively decided that they want to jump on half-sunken ship in the middle of the ocean?
Amazing.
Time to learn HolyC and make your own
forkdenomination of TempleOS xDhalf-sunken ship
If you think the ship is ever sinking I’ve got bad news for you…
They can only burn so much money before investors stop giving it.
Is it a half sunken ship? I’ve been following AI is software for a while now, even though all signs point to failure and crash, it just keeps going and people adopt it more.
Hot take: LLMs is the best thing has happened to open source movement:
- software copyright is defeated and basically eliminated in practice
- reverse engineering is so accessible that proprietary protocols cannot be hidden and can be reimplemented by AI agents as free software
- open weight LLMs are incredibly competitive and run on general hardware
- linux is de facto winner in all computing and rising in desktop and gaming niches
We’re literally in the golden age of free software
Llms have been great for finding and fixing bugs and cranking out code, but the systems that allow for generation of code at a direct cost of dollars as opposed to the overhead of managing and employing programmers aren’t under the intense pressure to not redo old work and so are disincentivized from either creating or contributing to open source projects.
That would be cool and all, but people stopped reading their code. At work if I can not explain every line of my PR, it will get rejected. I use it as a powerful tool but a lot of people just output code and think their trash belongs in production.
Although I agree with you, I had that issue well before AI was a thing:
“I dunno, I just copied it from this StackOverflow post…”
<cut to me raging that someone would do that>
You’re conflating open source and free software with public domain. Open source software licenses are completely dependent on software copyright. This means that if software copyright were eliminated, open source licenses would become completely unenforceable. We may be headed in this direction anyway, but I just thought I would make the point.
It has been wild to see Linux users hope that the GPL is rendered unenforceable.
Why? The entire purpose of GPL is to counteract copyright. If there is no copyright we no longer need GPL either.
The GPL gives you the right to access and modify the source code of software you use. A lack of copyrights does not mean that the creators have to share the source code with you. In fact, it means that anyone can take GPL software and turn it into closed source software
@fruitcantfly @drmoose Just. Wrong. Clearly ‘Linux boosted’ is a worthless accolade.
Copyleft exists only because of copyright. If there is no copyright there’s no longer a need for copyleft.
I completely disagree. What’s the main thing the GPL does that is different from public domain or the complete absence of copyright?
It restricts how the code can be used in order to protect the writers and the consumers of the code. Without copyright and copyleft, any company can use any GPL code in any proprietary product they want, without sharing any of their changes and without even crediting the original writers. As an example, Microsoft could adopt the Linux kernel for Windows, heavily modify it, sell it, and stay completely silent about it, without any consequences. That’s what a world without copyright means for copyleft.
Sure but again this is only a problem if copyright exists. Stallman himself invented GPL due to frustrations of copyright. The permisiveness is default human behavior that was corrupted by evil people and terrible systems. The neutrrance of copyright just returns us to this default state of sharing.
@drmoose @Grandwolf319 Assuming you place zero value on quality, yeah this is great.
Debian, destroying Linux since 2015.
Elaborate? I don’t want to vote just yet, maybe it’s a take I could agree with (what did they start doing 2015?)
The first debian version with systemd was released that year.
Looks like I better start learning OpenBSD ASAP. I really like my distro of choice, but if the distro it’s based off of is shooting itself in the foot, I have to switch over massive ethical concerns!
Second I find out I can put a second drive in my desktop, I plan on using it to learn to make something a lot less hostile to the actual people helping develop the OS. And OpenBSD sounds like a fun choice for now… at least until I find they have started betraying the actual people.
It’s a desktop, there should be sufficient space to fit more than one drive. You can also use external drives. I use three on my server.
From what I understand, while OpenBSD is currently not accepting LLM contributions, they mostly made that choice out of legal copyright concerns, and seem like they would jump on the bandwagon when they consider it to be safer legally.
Then I hope now for it to never become legally safe to use LLM code. LLMs have poisoned literally everything pure and holy and I hate them for it!
NetBSD is also worth a look, especially with the MicroVM kernel stuff in 11. You can look at smolBSD to start playing with it immediately.
If you’re worried about LLM generated code you better stop using computers all together.
Return to monke. Literally.
Or maybe just get off the grid
No, I am worried about idiots committing llm generated code straight into production without even bothering to review it
So you will check the development process or each project you use? Good luck with that.
So I will drop any project that goes nuts before they get a chance to fuck up my life or work
I’d rather spend my time using technology to spread the word that the creatures who use genAI can become human again through reeducation against genAI. Sounds much more productive.
Sure, just accept you will be using technology build with genAI.
Not much of an issue with that, I feel.
I can tell you for sure that the workers and the farmers did not own the pitchforks nor the materials for the guillotines with which they rebelled against their oppressors.
Yeah.
[https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-6-ai-free-linux-distros/](This article did not age well at all.)
Everything will be infested eventually.
Even if Datacenters fall and tokens are expensive AF, there are enough accessible models that the cat isn’t going back into the bag.
Humans are … opportunistic. If most can do a half-assed job for almost no effort and get by, they will.
So what does this mean for users?
Is fedora going to get worse now?
debian maintainer resigns
Is fedora gonna get worse?
Did you even read the dann blog post?
Who?
Fascism is when AI.
How is AI fascist?
Is it ultranationalist? Rejecting democracy? Anticommunist or antiliberal? Third position in economics? Anti egalitarian? Racist? Traditianolist socially?
I could maybe see an argument for it being anti egalitarian, but besides that, LLMs have none of those traits.
Some of them are owned by fascists but I do agree with you
Most developers using AI/LLMs use corporate owned LLM’s, not local models (and almost certainly never a local model that is trained in a way to not introduce legal plagiarism into a FLOSS project).
Using corporate AI directly helps the financial situations of the big tech companies that host them (by boosting usage/user numbers, they are able to attract more investment capital), most of which are owned by right-wing CEO’s who are more than willing to collaborate with and fund fascist governments to ensure that they are not regulated and receive lucritive government contracts. Many of these companies, such as Nvidia, Palantir and Oracle, genuinely appear to be seeking to use these tools for what would previously be considered crackpot conspiracy theory levels of public control and surveillance.
That’s still not fascism.
Also, your logic is flawed: Some CEOs are right wing, so they would be willing to support fascism (because as we know, right wing = fascism)
In my opinion CEOs of most tech companies are just opurtunistic.
If a corporation helping a fascist government surveil and detain citizens in opposition to the government securing more totalitarian power isn’t fascist then… What would you consider fascist behavior?
This doesn’t mean all corporations are like that
Most are operated by sociopaths and psychopaths.
Assuming it is true, it doesn’t mean that they’re all fascist.
Did you watch it? It compares corporations itself to psychopaths, it’s nowhere said that CEOs/upper management are psychopaths.
Opportunistic people supporting fascism and actual fascist true believers are indistinguishable in how they behave, right? The only difference would be if/when fascism is no longer an opportunity to make money.
You don’t understand… ‘fascism’ today means something along the lines of ‘I don’t like it’, like ‘gay’ in the 90s…
come to devuan
Devuan has made no official statements on their stance about LLM use. Until they do, it is not known if they would be a safe haven or not.
The only debian based distro that has publicly taken a stand against LLM/AI’s is AntiX linux.
Noo! Come to devutwo!
I use arch btw.
Glorious gentoo
Guess we don’t deserve efficient, reliable, or performant software according to AI bros
we don’t even deserve to breathe air according to AI bros.
You know who doesnt waste precious air by beathing it? AI bots.
Honestly we are wasting our air resources on any uneccessary fleshbots wandering around drooling and spouting delusions about LLMs not actually being the next step of humanities evolution.not gonna lie, you had me at the first half.
Sad but true
