The Ukrainian president warned airlines, insurers and foreign governments that the growing scale of Kyiv’s drone operations would make Russian airspace increasingly unsafe for aircraft.
The Ukrainian president warned airlines, insurers and foreign governments that the growing scale of Kyiv’s drone operations would make Russian airspace increasingly unsafe for aircraft.
If the Ukrainians shoot down a Chinese civilian airliner, they would be fucking themselves at a level that has not been seen since Pearl Harbor.
I doubt Ukrainian drones can even fly that high. This is a kind warning to let people know that russian air defense is going to be so keyed up that they’ll likely shoot down civilian airliners. Again.
Drones aren’t the only tool in the kit. There’s no shortage of anti-air defenses that can hit commercial airliners, especially as they’re taking off or landing.
If a civilian aircraft is shot down, the Ukrainians will almost certainly insist the Russians did it themselves. Idk how many people will believe them, after Zelensky basically painted a target on every Russian airport.
If you’re flying a civilian plane near a warzone you don’t get to cry when it gets hit.
Okay, now say it in the original Japanese
I assume that’s a Confucius quip but he was Chinese, perhaps you should clarify what you mean.
Christ you’re dumb
While Ukraine has a huge domestic drone assembly industry, I’m sure a lot of the basic chips and radios are still coming from China. It’s not hyperbole to say the war hinges on that supply continuing.
OTOH, Russia AA loves shooting down civilian airliners and they’re going to be getting twitchy around airports now.
I don’t think anyone was suggesting the ukrainians would do that. Buuuut if a Chinese aircraft ended up colliding with a drone after being warned not to fly in Russian airspace, well then it’s just an unfortunate accident and it could have been avoided had they heeded the warning.
I’d be more worried that Russia downs a Chinese aircraft and blames it on Ukraine.
Of course, killing however many civilians is always just collateral, if the right side does it.
The whole point about closing the airspace over Russia is so civilians don’t get accidentally shot down.
I think you’ve been drinking too much Russia’s Kool-Aid. Which is possibly only marginally less healthy than the regular stuff.
Yes, sure, must be it.
I mean. I don’t think anyone was suggesting echodot would imply otherwise. Must be Russian Kool-Aid.
I’m literally the same person 🙄
Thanks, I know. It’s a play on your own cheeky remark:
Have a good day, same person!
I think that’s just your reading comprehension at play. No one’s excusing state terrorism or suggesting it happen.
I suggest that thread. Maybe you’re not excusing it then, but at least trivialising it. You wouldn’t do it the other way around, or in same scenario with other actors. You commented like that, because you feel affiliated with Ukraine and have a more dismissal attitude towards Russia and China.
WTF is even the point that you’re trying to argue? That Ukraine should roll over and allow itself to be conquered? I doubt whether that’s the point you’re making, so please explain the underlying point of your argument, because it’s not as self-evident as you seem to think it is.
Don’t fantasise about war crimes, just because you think you’re on the right team. It’s not that complicated.
Who’s fantasizing?
Let’s not pretend Ukraine ultra echodot up there was articulating a pragmatic and neutral scenario. But if you do, you can also pretend to have entirely identical feelings on similar scenarios involving other players.
Or, you could admit that you make differences, depending on who’s who.
If a Ukraine “ultra” was going to fantasize about a scenario of that ilk, it would be that Chinese airlines simply stop flying over Russia. That’s what would help Ukraine. A Chinese civilian airliner getting accidentally shot down in Russian airspace wouldn’t really help Ukraine except to encourage Chinese airlines to simply stop flying over Russia, and if that’s the result one is looking for, one would prefer to skip straight to that part and not have the civilian casualties in the first place, since Ukraine depends on international goodwill.
No, I think you’ve neglected to consider the possibility that echodot’s comment was meant to be read at face value: that Ukraine doesn’t want civilians shot down, but it’s not going to sabotage its own war efforts to avoid that scenario either; not when civilians NOT flying into warzones is the easier and more obvious preventative.
Ukraine has no international good will and also does not rely on it. Ukraine solely depends on the goodwill of the Western capitalist block, as it’s a puppet to fight a proxy war for them in order to weaken Russia. This is official policy, as I have explained and sourced in another comment. It’s really only the US and it’s close allies that vilify Russia. The rest of the world knows full well, that this is a farce, an attempt of Western Imperialism to subdue and deconstruct Russia in order to encircle China. This. Is. Official. Policy. Ukraine is the victim of Western Imperialism, a puppet, a proxy; this is consensus outside of the Western sphere of influence. Supporting the ongoing war effort, means supporting the demise of the Ukrainian people and the Russian people, means supporting the West’s strategy to destroy Russia to gain Lebensraum, resources, power and encircle China.
Ukraine has long sold off it’s own resources and sovereignty for material support and credit, it’s now so highly in debt, that it will never be able to pay it back. It will have to give everything they’ve got left to Western banks and finance capital for investment opportunities. I don’t know if you already forgot the power differential between Trump and Zelensky; he’s a puppet. And no, that’s not Russia’s fault. You people celebrate the abuse of the Ukrainian people by the US and Europe, because you think their brothers in the east are the culprits. How do you on the one side manage to realize the horrific role the West plays in the Palestinian genocide, the US/Israel war on Iran, the bombing of innocent people. All well supported by every major European country accept Spain, which denied base access to the US, spoke out against the genocide and promptly got chastised for it … how do you keep turning around to Ukraine and seriously think, this is a good and righteous war in the interest of the Ukrainian people? It’s so disgusting.
Now, if the few western Lemmy internet people believe that or not is not even of any direct consequence, other than to make sure the populous does not rebel against the West’s war effort, everybody stays in line and makes sure the general consensus in the EU is to become fit for war, to activate enough willing soldiers and supporters for the good cause™ to defend™ our values™, freedom™ and way of life™ (aka, directly attacking with NATO power by use of some kind of false flag, as is etiquette), because, you know, the evil Russians are coming for us (which they’re not even).
The very same kind of war propaganda since before WW2, when it was important for German capital to fight the judeo-bolshevik brute from the east (aka communism) and later throughout the Cold War through Red Scare propaganda. This never stopped. The propaganda never stopped. Today the end game is China. And you people keep wondering what’s up with all the right winginess throughout the West - sheeesh, that’s capitalism for you, mutating into fascism, because it’s in a crisis it can’t lift itself out of. Western capital outsourced all of its production forces to cheaper global south countries and now has nothing left to innovate and produce, get’s overtaken by a new socialist super power, China. The west just can’t compete in their own system. All that’s left is war economy. VW is planning to switch to weapons manufacturing in Germany (Osnabrück), and several US and Israeli weapons manufacturers are planning to build factories in structurally week regions (Elbit Systems in Sangerhausen, Covenant in Leipzig), where people are desperate for jobs. (German examples, because I’m German and more involved in that country’s politics). The government just yesterday officially blamed Russia for a drone incident, that they can’t show because they don’t even have any evidence for. They just claim it is so, with trust me bro logic, in order to escalate relations and fearmonger their citizens into compliance.
Once Europe’s elite decides they’re prepared well enough, they will force their own working class to go die on the front for the interests of the capitalist ruling class. Russia and China are the West’s adversaries, so Ukraine, scrambling to survive in this unwinnable war they where forced into (by the West), has always had a very strong motive to escalate and to involve other countries in the actual war, in the hopes they don’t have to do it all alone, with the mere weaponry support of the west; sending their own men, while Western Europe doesn’t need to send their own, because Ukraine has to fight their war for them.
If you’re serious with your demeanour, I find you horribly naive. To the point where I’m inclined to think you’re doing this purposefully, since you’re so busy posting Western war propaganda.
TL;DR:
No, Ukraine’s government is not relying on international goodwill. Yes, Ukraine’s government has a lot of reasons to escalate.