Pre-election?
So many people talking about how they don’t care about who is elected next resounds of the remarkable privelage of someone who doesn’t need to care about the result. Like calling against “”" Blue MAGA"“” and “Vote Blue No Matter Who.”
I’m a trans person, who exactly are you asking me to vote for? Have you ever seen a republican politician. Describe to me which republican politician doesn’t want to take away the rights of trans people?
To you they may mean nothing, to me it’s everything and you CANNOT convince me by insulting me. The democrats wish to use people like me as a token, it’s degrading, digusting, and I hate them every step of the way. The republicans want me dead.
These two sides are different and if you wish for me to vote someone different get someone on stage who gives a shit about people like me and I’ll vote for them under any banner. Until then the future is looking pretty blue.
This comment section right here is all the proof that there will be no salvation in November.
Every pig-ignorant savior is so absolutely certain that their ideologically pure solution is the only acceptable way to fix anything that everyone is going to cancel each other out and it’s just going to continue sliding towards the cliff edge.
Under NO circumstances attempt to learn ANY lessons from parliamentary coalitions who banded together to stop the hijacking of their governments by radical fascists despite sweeping policy disagreements. Everyone keep nitpicking every minute detail, make no compromises whatsoever no matter the costs, and make stupid, pointless, self-destructive, aggrandizing gestures so you can talk down to strangers on the internet, and enjoy the ride to hell.
Jokes on you, I’m not eating the shit sandwich, I’m eating the vomit sandwich!
For anyone who needs to hear it, that’s not an excuse to not criticize whatever your side is.
Yes, even on Lemmy, seems to be a lot more of that.
Probably because people who point out hypocrisy or ask a community to do better than the other side often results in them being echochambered out and Reddit mods love to permaban anyone who disagrees with their strict opinions.
And before you ask. No, that didn’t happen to me. I just really like raunchy ass porn.
In the last month, specifically? I don’t disagree with what you’re saying but it seems to be targeted, time-wise.
It’s also rather beside the point in the American two party system, with current hardline far right people in leadership. Both sides do commit atrocities, but the current administration is speed running the collapse of the world order.
It’s so funny that you think the uptick in critiques of Dems in the last month is specifically because the bot farms are spinning up and not because there’s an uptick in electioneering that the critica are able to visibly respond to
It’s not so funny that you ignore years of reports about people in other countries paid to post on social media.
It’s neither fully one thing or the other, but ignorance of foreign interference only helps them win.
I think billionaire interference is more prominent than foreign interference. You have news stations, Republicans and Democrats all spouting the same pro-Israel, anti-socialism rhetoric.
Well, yes. It’s hard to see someone’s entire comment history in a thread, but if you stalked me, you will find me repeatedly railing against our oligarchs as the primary problem we must solve - wealth inequality is the primary problem in the US, all else stems from that or is related, imho.
But that has little to do with the comment to which I was replying. :)
I think it’s prettyyyy related. I mean what kind of comments are we even talking about against dems?
Only Russians could hate Democrats, our true saviors.
I won’t say what I think about people who don’t understand basic logic, but I will say that’s an amazing leap of “logic” there, friend.
Daily reminder that not voting or voting for a ugly complicit communist bitch with zero redeeming qualities is the same as voting for fascist terrorist
Both siders are the distinctive worst.
Not in near as great a volume as during the presidential years, but there’s the usual drum beat of ‘Dems bad so don’t bother cause it’s all useless’ type posts. Might be that I see less though having defederated the triad when I switched from Lemmy to Piefed.
Doesn’t help if people read “Dems bad” as “don’t bother”.
People on lemmy be like “your strategy of doing literally anything else pales in comparison to mine of winning elections” and then they go on and lose
People join and support groups that take real action. Take the houthis for example. MLs by comparison can’t even fill out a ballot.
Good argument, I will now join ISIS.
In the real world there’s plenty of marxist-leninist organisations in the west that do take action. One might wonder why these groups are cracked down on viciously as soon as they get any traction, while this “just vote for progressives” idealism has been allowed to flourish for decades now.
One might wonder why these groups are cracked down on viciously as soon as they get any traction,
Ohh no there opposition to reform. Let me also discourage other forms even tho its easy to do more than one thing
“MLs don’t do anything!”
Actually they do. “Well they don’t do enough!”
Because whenever an ML group gets political traction, it gets targeted harshly by the state
“Defeatist! Russian propagandist”The fact that you are allowed to run your mouth about your little idealistic strategy of “changing the democrats from the inside”, while any actual vector of progress gets shut down, should give you a hint on how viable your idea is. Either that or, you know, look at the many many many many times you’ve tried this so far, to no success.
You people keep acting as if you’re being told to do nothing, when all you’re told is this one thing that you keep doing does not work. I suppose acting as if you’re told to do nothing is easier than actually engaging with the people disagreeing with you
while any actual vector of progress gets shut down,
Support them anyway.
Is taking an evening to vote in primary and election day too hard for you yet expect others to velive your serious about higher level activism?
Everyone knows that in a democracy the only two options are voting and firebombing Walmart. You can’t do both, and anyone who suggests otherwise is blue MAGA.
God that’s become such a hot term here lately. Particularly among the type of people who will go into repeating the same phrase over and over when they get shut down in an argument.
guy who thinks revolution when firebombing walmart
I mean the Revolution can have a little firebombing walmart.
As a treat.
Saved. This should not be as applicable to lemmy as it is.
Ex-CUSE me, but HAVE you firebombed a Walmart? No? Then shut up!
(I’m kidding, I’m kidding!!! And I’m also stealing the image as well…) :)
Save this one too: “I can’t even trust you to vote or and/or be a poll worker, why would I trust you in a violent revolution?”
“because you can lob biological weapons at the enemy and i am very light”
Oh wow, that’s good
Cowb in shambles.
Rent free
That’s everyone here.
Am confused, how would firebombing a walmart bring change?
Nah, this is the standard pattern. The usual election information warfare strategy simply doesn’t scale as well for hundreds of races because it can’t be orchestrated from a top down structure, so they don’t put in the same effort. It’s meant to rely on useful idiots, teenagers, malcontents and cynics amplifying a single narrative on the Internet, which just doesn’t work when the issues are sufficiently local.
It’s honestly amazing people still fall for this though, but the evidence that it works is that they keep doing it, and gestures broadly. And also that they don’t really bother for the midterms.
I think lumping all criticism of Dems and claiming them as bots is part of why you folks keep losing, but I’m not a professional election loser so I guess my opinion is that of a laymen. Take it as you will.
Hello nine day old account encouraging people not to vote democratic!
Hi sorry I don’t want to vote for corporate pedo supporters like you :(
I’m not the one acting like I get a paycheck from the dnc while lobbing bot accusations. But by god I hope you are getting paid, otherwise yeesh. Embarrassing.
You can do better than that MAGAt.
Ps before you cry at me my city just voted in a DSA mayor under 75 years of age so all your just vote for the old guard pedos bs is whack AND wrong.
Good on them, but when the long shot nobody had heard of on a national stage is barely an afterthought telling people to not vote for the less evil blue person running 49/49 with the very evil red person is helping the red person.
Oh look the blue person we got in goes and votes with the red person to bomb my grandparents. Oh you’re so right…
PRIVILEGE! WHAT YOU HAVE AND DON’T REALIZE IS THE PRIVILEGE OF LETTING OTHER PEOPLE FEEL SOME ADDITIONAL PAIN BECAUSE OPTION TWO IS A LITTLE LESS PAIN FOR YOU PERSONALLY.
Fuck you and fuck your family too. I hope they DO NOT have a dem vote to bomb them and then have a movie about how sad it made them killing your “SAVAGE GROTESQUE” family like I did. You still probably wouldn’t be capable of empathy so it would just be cruel to them.
And no I’m not helping republicans by calling out Dems for what they are. Which is Republicans.
You are helping the republicans by voting for their controlled oposition.
Finally, here your straw man dies again; I implore everyone to vote local, and vote anything but red or blue. DSA is going strong in a lot of cities, get involved and over throw the cabal of pedos that shell monkey is totally okay with if they wear blue and say nice things about equality.
Turns out when you vote for that blue person, you’re electing them into office where they will go ahead and help the very evil red person on your behalf. Isn’t representative democracy grand?
Noooo you dont get it! We have to vote for them, otherwise the other genociders will win! And they’re kind of rude!! Besides, now is not the time to critique the party, as we all know, if we don’t point out the obvious flaws with our candidate, then the opponents aren’t allowed to do it either!
Look you can critique the party after the election (not really, because that’s when we have to rally around them and support them) not at the time of the primaries though, that’s when you have to advocate for your specific candidate only (and if we ratfuck them, then that’s just too bad) and only in a way where you dont critique the party. You also cant do it before elections.The best way to push the party left is to shut up and vote for it no matter what. As you can see, this has been an incredibly succesful strategy. Remember when we didnt get universal healthcare or when we didnt codify Roe v. Wade? Remember when we invaded Libya or when we decided to destroy ACORN? Or the patriot act, boy that was swell. Hey remember Jimmy Carter? He was so nice when he destroyed Cambodia. Or Clinton, good ol’ Bill! The saxophone guy who did NAFTA and bombed Yugoslavia so he could have sex with his wife again - in between his visits to Epstein island.
And what about Joe Biden?? The most progressive president since JFK! What with all the Union busting, increased police budgets, arbitrary declaration of COVID being over (despite thousands still dying), his unrepentant support for Israel, all the fracking… This thing is just going so well, don’t mess it up now! One of these days we might even have a president who deports fewer people than the previous administration.
You added this reply less than two minutes after your original. I’d recommend looking for the “edit” button next time. It’s more polite than expecting people to keep up with the fact that you replied to yourself before anyone else even had a chance to reply to you.
As is so often the case, the details matter. How blue is your city? Did your DSA candidate run as a third party, or as a Democrat after winning the democratic primary?
Well, if you’re not gonna vote, then your political opinions ain’t really worth listening to, are they? I mean, not like you could even be bothered to do the bare minimum political speech.
Try reading a bit more before you speak lil man.
Nah, non-voters ain’t worth listening to.
We voted in a DSA mayor here. You’re a simp for pedos and can’t be half assed to read 3 sentences before making false statements. Intellect.
Just sit back and keep being a bitch, papa will vote for humans and get us back on track lil man.
Oh. Did you vote?
Bahahaha I was planning on lurking, but calling someone “lil man” in an attempt to be condescending gives off such a tiny dog syndrome vibe I just had to comment.
Who are “You folks”?
Sane folks reading, you gotta ask yourself if what I said is unreasonable. Kind of odd that democrats go so hard against anyone a half pace to the left while forgiving anything to the right.
Being happy and excited about a corporate dem being unseated for a dsa while pointing out the flaw of always capitulating is met with a volley of downvotes, why?
As for the people in the comments, I’m just going to hope you’re getting paid.
Who lumped anything all into one? A young account who calls others cowards for not starting a violent uprising doesn’t suggest serious discussion material.
It’s not complicated, primaries to make progress, generals you deal with to at least reduce harm.
The nice to your face corporate pedof… I mean democrats.
Isn’t it possible to ask some Dems to do better and maybe get rid of the geriatrics? It’s hard to include all that when pointing out to someone why “vote blue no matter who” or “vote left straight down the ballot” are not the best choices.
After all… We have “vote blue no matter who” and “vote left straight down the ballot” a few times resulting in Dems controlling the exec and leg branches which didn’t turn out so hot for a vast majority of folks.
Isn’t it possible to ask some Dems to do better and maybe get rid of the geriatrics?
Yes, right up until the primary is over.
After that, it’s time to hold your nose and vote for the (D) anyway as a matter of harm reduction.
Do that after you have power. Not during an election, in ways which amplify information warfare. Like, just activate a single strategic brain cell for like three months every 4 years.
Republicans have figured this out. How long will it take progressives?
That’s why you vote in the democratic primaries, to do that thing you just said. Then you prevent republicans from getting power in the general. It’s not hard, but leftists would have to actually vote instead of just bitching online. You wonder why democrats don’t cater to leftists? Leftists don’t fuckin vote.
In twenty years Dems have only held a supermajority for like two months and they passed the ACA. Fuck outta here with your bullshit.
the aca was a Republican handout to insurance companies.
The aca improved the quality of life of the average American. The aca slowed down the rapidly increasing premiums insurance companies were rolling out. The aca prevented those insurance companies from denying or gouging for preexisting conditions or removing people from insurance for developing chronic conditions. The aca was a mess and far from perfect but it absolutely was a significant improvement to the status quo and a net benefit to every citizen. And always remember that it wasn’t better due to the policy of republican obstructionism. Don’t be a fuckin idiot.
Isn’t it possible to ask some Dems to do better and maybe get rid of the geriatrics?
AFAIK, not anymore. The time for that was a month ago.
geriatrics
Sure, get rid of the progressive ones as well as the centrist/establishment ones and then wonder why it doesn’t help when you still have the younger progressive ones and younger centrist/establishment ones.
why “vote blue no matter who” or “vote left straight down the ballot” are not the best choices.
The time to get who you want is BEFORE the general election. When it comes to the general election, a centrist/establishment Dem is still better than a fascist. So in the general, “vote blue no matter who”, but in the PRIMARY is where you support a candidate - not just with your vote, but money if you can, canvassing if you can, online discussion if you can.
people do not want to hear this but if you want to have legitimate change in 2032 it’s time to start working toward it. 2028 is not going to be the year you want.
politics is slow as fuck.
Bingo.
The purpose of Vote Blue No Matter Who is just that.
Dems suck, don’t get me wrong, but there is no path to anything good through the GOP, and 3rd parties are essentially a waste.
The general idea is basically, push the Dems to a super majority for a few cycles so the GOP dies off, then split the Dems into a new Conservative (current Dems) and proper Progressive (Probably Dem Socs) parties.
Oh wow, sounds like a great plan, wonder why it has never panned out over the many decades of this talk.
Because too many people don’t have the patience or attention span to suck it up for an decade and “protest not vote” over stupid shit like Palestine/Israel being eternally at war or because a candidate didn’t campaign EXCLUSIVELY on giving trans people all the candy.
These issues are important, but maybe a bigger, more important issue is not letting the fucking Nazis take over. Because no one wins under the Nazis, not Palestine, not trans people, not women, not Hispanic people, not even white CIS asshole dudes in the end.
No one.
stupid shit
Yeah man, the modern day holocaust is just some silly little thing. You also seem to not understand that genocide was the straw that broke the camels back.
Not letting the Nazis take over
Both parties are Nazis. You really seem to struggle with this. But then again, you are calling a genocide “stupid shit” and both-sidesing it, so you are pretty close to being one yourself.
There are plenty of people who claim they didn’t vote for Harris or didn’t vote at all, because she was kind of wishy washy on he stance on the whole thing.
Meanwhile Trump was openly stating he wants to bulldoze Gaza and turn it into a Dubai style resort for rich people.
These are not the same, and it’s fucking stupid that people seem to act like they are. Especially given the tidal wave of EVERYTHING ELSE the GOP have been openly pushing.
“Holocaust” or not, the GOP is bad for everyone. Especially everyone in the country.
And it is stupid shit. They have been going back and forth for decades and before that there was still fighting constantly in that space because everyone thinks they have exclusive rights to their stupid Sky Daddy homeland over everyone else. It’s just endless fucking religious bull shit wars. Don’t act like Palestine wasn’t also killing innocent people going the other way before. Today’s conflict doesn’t exist in a vacuum.
There are plenty of people who claim they didn’t vote for Harris or didn’t vote at all, because she was kind of wishy washy on he stance on the whole thing.
No. They didn’t vote for her because she was a fervent supporter of Israel.
These are not the same,
Yeah, one wears a shitty tan and the other laughs kind of funny. They both wanted to give billions to Israel, they both wanted to flatten Gaza, they both wanted to commit genocide.
“Holocaust” or not, the GOP is bad for everyone
Lmao you would have voted for Hindenburg.
And it is stupid shit. They have been going back and forth for decades and before that there was still fighting constantly in that space because everyone thinks they have exclusive rights to their stupid Sky Daddy homeland over everyone else.
Okay so you are either an ahistorical idiot or a liberal zionist. Next time you open your mouth, make sure you actually know what you’re talking about before you do so.
Don’t act like Palestine wasn’t also killing innocent people going the other way before.
There are no innocent colonialists. The palestinians have been driven from their homes, ruthlessly targeted for extermination, bombed, put in the largest open-air prison in the world, constantly surveilled, attacked by daily raids and so much more for decades. Them fighting back is not some wanton act of violence. It is a people defending itself.
Today’s conflict doesn’t exist in a vacuum.
Insane thing to say to equivocate the people being genocided with the genocider. Even more insane thing to say when the context is a decades-long slower-burning genocide.
But I guess you have to be insane to be a liberal zionist.
Couldn’t possibly be because a sizable portion of the “left” is actively working against it…could it???
✊↔️🖐️💦
Probably not, since Obama had a supermajority and yet your promised land never came to be. All we got was drone-strikes on Afghan wedding-venues, slave-trade in Libya, bailouts for stockbrokers, more deportations than under Bush and the slow deterioration of conditions that fascilitated Trumps first election victory.
Somehow this is the lefts fault, a movement that is both powerful enough to hamstring the democrats from… implementing health care? And also not powerful enough to actually listen to.Personally I think its the fault of that dastardly parlamentarian and [insert designated villain of the week democrat]!
You know this talk of yours has been around since the 1800’s, right? All it has amounted to is running Democrats that would make Reagan look like a pinko.
Preach
I think a lot of it is cognitive dissonance for people who want to, for whatever reason, vote republican but can’t ignore that they have made everything much, much worse. Easier on their tiny brains if they can terminate those critical thoughts with “Both sides same shrug”
It’s also great propaganda to get people to stop bothering to vote, so fascists love it - because they rally their base and get the other side to not bother to vote.
A lot of DSA/progressives won the primaries because taking AIPAC money is now generally considered toxic. Also, there’s not currently a national election contest featuring blue-flavored genocide enablers. It’s almost like people learned something from the experience last election. Just running as “not as evil” isn’t really an effective electoral strategy or something.
Which makes sense, but this is all still predicated on side B complying with rules.
The biggest worry I have is that this is pushing the animal of fascism into a corner, as must happen. The rapid buildup of the DoJ into a paramilitary organization at the beginning of Trumps turn indicates to me that he has no plans on relinquishing power, mid-terms be damned.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
This is a quote from a liberal btw. Best to be prepared for the inevitable.
There’s a big fucking difference between expressing this kind of sentiment before the primaries, when it has the possible outcome of changing the nominee from a neoliberal to a progressive or leftist, and expressing it after the primaries, when the only possible outcome is discouraging turnout for Democrats generally and thus helping the pro-genocide fascists.
By all means, yell from the hilltops about AIPAC-tained candidates etc. during the primary. That’s a good thing! But once the primary is over, it’s time to STFU about it if the nominee isn’t your preferred candidate because at that point there is no longer any better alternative.
This. Between the mid terms in a couple of months and the next primary I absolutely welcome it. We will call establishment Dems names, shit on their neoliberal policies, mock their strongly worded letters, search for their backbone, push everything from the big issues to our pet issues, engage with OUR candidates, and generally be a thorn in the side of the institution. Viva la fuck them guys.
But for the sake of all that is unholy, please vote for harm reduction once the primary is locked.
They know what they’re doing grue.
Local lefties can make their own choices. The Fettermans and Sinemas have clearly shown themselves to be consistent enemies of progress.
You are literally doing the meme though. 2 terrible examples, but plenty of others are nothing like that.
Local lefties can make their own choices.
Can you read?
I… don’t understand how that changes anything?
You’re still in a way telling people not to vote dem even though we are past primaries.
I prescribed no decision, as it is their own choice. See how that works?
Oh that relieves you of being the meme in question, okay.
Explicit statements bad implicit statements good, got it.
yeah, i’m pretty sure if the democrat in a statesian race is taking AIPAC money, the republican is taking more. it’s like oil money.
I’ve also noticed a significant increase in “the right did something awful and the left’s response wasn’t good enough, how could the left do that, the left is terrible, I’m not going to support them” type posts and replies.
Purity tests are bullshit, especially when the things that precipitated the “insufficient” response is literally fascism
There’s a huge difference between leftists and liberals. And I would argue most of the outrage is against liberals, not to leftist not responding properly. It’s amazing how many people still think liberals are leftists. We have 2 parties in the USA and both are right wing authoritarian shitfaces that serve billionaires and if you’re here to tell me to vote for the lesser of 2 evils when both are evil, you can go fuck yourself.
I’m here to tell you to stop attacking the lesser evil for getting in bed with oligarchs when the greater evil is actively murdering people in the streets. I’m here to tell you to stop attacking the lesser evil for bad tax policy when the greater evil is denying children food.
I’m here to tell you to stop doing the greater evil’s job for them.
You can hate the lesser evil without making it easier for the greater evil to succeed.
If you spend a disproportionate amount of time focused on pointing out how the lesser evil is still evil, compared to the amount of time you spend fighting the greater evil, then you are a just a tool of the greater evil.
“But they’re both evil” false equivalency bullshit is a position you can only take if you’re privileged enough not to be ground into dust under the boots of the greater evil. And waxing philosophic about the merits of rejecting the lesser evil while the greater evil continued to murder and destroy is self-centered, self-aggrandizing, callous disregard for the the people whose lives are in jeopardy right now, today, because of the greater evil.
Buddy, if you think dems are going to roll back ANYTHING that Trump has implemented these last couple years and what he will enact as he finishes his term, you’re living in a fucking fantasy land. The Dems literally campaigned on “Nothing will fundamentally change” when going against Donnie both times. They are happy to see these policies enacted as they aren’t the ones who will take the blame for them, but they damn sure will not try and repeal them.
Get fucked on your lesser of 2 evils bullshit.
okay tankie. enjoy the fascism. fucking tool of the right, doing their work for them. disgusting
Lmao immediately calls me a tankie for pointing out how Democrats are the useful idiots of the right. I have, nowhere in this entire conversation or anywhere in my profile, commented that Dems and Republicans need to be shot and killed to progress society. But please, keep conflating points to fit your narrative you fucking snowflake.
When your arguments place you on the same side as a particular group of awful people you need not regurgitate their credo word for word to find yourself associated with their ideology.
We are the company we keep.
Alright, let’s follow your logic: Your arguments place you on the same side as people who were committing a genocide, who vote for the genocide to continue, who expand the police state, who ran on being harsher on immigration than Trump, who sicced cops on peaceful protesters, who had rioters disappeared in black vans, who sought to increase tensions with China whenever possible, who had nothing to say about persecution of queer people, who expanded fracking and did nothing to alleviate the climate catastrophe, who did nothing to stop Roe v Wade from being overturned, who turned on the MeToo movement as soon as Their Guy got targeted, who concluded they lost because they were “too woke”, who kicks left every chance they get, and so much more… but it’s okay because the other team has a fat guy who’s kind of rude about doing the same things AND he’s worse at administrating the empire.
That’s who your arguments place you next to. The other posters arguments place them next to people who oppose genocide.
The fascism was already here under the democrats. You just didnt notice because the news told you not to worry about it.
Macklemore said he’d never vote for Biden in one of his songs.
Let’s talk about that.
Dude isn’t a fucking saint, he’s a dumbass. Free Palestine, though.
> mad at macklemore for not being willing to vote for genocide Joe
> free Palestine, though“Coexist” I mutter serenely as I shoot up a mosque.
I wonder what the genocide scoreboard looks like between dems and repubs? Probably pretty even.
Idk for US politics but at least in France change came much faster from outside of the pseudo left party Democat equivalent (PS) rather than inside. By fast I mean 10+ years but still the leftist party that is in best place to win présidentiel election broke all links with the establishment and that how they won popular vote.
Its almost as if these posts are put up to be divisive, and to keep any opposition to the current right wing neoliberal order divided. Huh.
