- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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Oh, that’s what this was getting at. For me, “I don’t do politics” is cause I live in the south and really don’t want to hear the other person’s opinion.
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Be careful. Here in Brazil, most middle-class people in the past didn’t care about politics. When they started caring, we got a coup, bolsonaro, millions of deaths, dismantling of institutions and social programs, loss in sovereignty, cuts in financing to universities, support for a military regime and an attempted coup, and now in a couple weeks, the risk of bolsonaro jr becoming the president.
Some people are really better not doing politics…
Now tankies would like to see the same happen in the USA… bc somehow in their fantasies the only other political system besides fascism is pure and perfect communism.
Edit: either that or else I should take them at their word that “death to the USA” is not merely symbolic but rather literal. I dunno, when someone tells you who they are, should you believe them the first time or not?
I love watching the mythology of “tankies” being built in real time
While the phrase “death to <group>” is open to interpretation, believe it or not those that identify as <group> (e.g. Redditors) might have an opinion as well.
“The USA” isn’t a group, it’s an entity. “Americans” are the group.
But that’s beside the point, I was pointing at the classic practice of saying “those people believe <egregious strawman>, those fools!”
Not really accurate seeing as voting rates among the poor and uneducated are substantially lower, even though they are the ones most often impacted negatively.
I’ll engage to the point it just becomes a binary football team mentality. Me not engaging with you isn’t me not engaging with politics because you’re a performative moron and I have a life to get on with.
I’m lowkey glad my partner doesn’t do politics, because I’m about 90% sure if they did they’d get sucked into some awful right wing grift
That’s kind of an awful thing to say about your partner.
Ironically at this point the circle of people that are affected is so big, that to be apolitical you are either a moron or at least a multimillionaire.
A good deal of people have responsibilities that are much more important than politics; while you’re reading HuffPo they may be, for example, cleaning an elderly parent who just vomited… everywhere.
People’s days can be very full, barely able to drag themselves into bed, even nodding out at the dinner table.
Morons? If you’re very fortunate, you’ll never learn how oblivious you are. Good luck.
Circles back to the moron point. Not doing anything to try and make better is on you if you stick your head in the ground.
My marriage is falling apart. I’ll focus on work. That will fix it.
You’re not wrong, but that was a little harsh.
Oregano?
To be apolitical in a democracy is an oxymoron and, at worst, a sign of willfull, deliberate ignorance.
A system intended for citizen participation in governance must have a politically conscious citizenry.
There’s people who are uneducated on the matter, and people who are educated, but choose ignorance. The latter is one of the worst forms of cruelty.
So why should I care?
You don’t do politics either. You just roleplay like your opinion has any impact and in reality you’re just annoying.
“I spend a lot of time fighting cancer, but thanks for reminding me that I should also invest time in politics to stop Islamic immigration. Oh, wait, you don’t agree with me? Oh dear.”
I hope you have good health insurance because that’s politics too
The irony of this comic is that it’s usually the Generic White Guy with opinions written on his sleeve and the Brown Woman with the Foreign Religion who needs to walk on eggshells and keep her politics close to the chest.
Honestly, politics getting shoehorned into literally every discussion is exhausting; it’s not the message that’s the problem.
Yeah, politics affects everything, but it doesn’t always have to be the focus of the conversation. I think people here forget that not everyone is terminally online like we tend to be.
Not everyone has the capacity to remain constantly outraged. For some of us, it’s literally detrimental to our mental health.
You know you can have opinions about things, and thinking they’re bad, without being outraged, right? Like, I think (idk about what you’d think) that dog poop smells bad. That is my opinion, and it’s consistent no matter where I am or what I’m doing. I don’t feel strongly when dog poop is mentioned. I still decline when someone offers me a bag of dog poop. If someone talks about a big poop their dog did, I don’t feel big emotions, I just know that I don’t like it. The same is with politics. Like I believe that all people should have access to free healthcare. Am I seething with rage constantly over the state of US healthcare? No. Am I upset whenever someone discusses which health insurance company they should go with? Also no, it’s them doing their thing trying to survive. But if someone’s saying “oh we should replace the national health system in countries X, Y, and Z with a private system like the US”, I’d potentially even comment on it, but still not have a burning flame of outrage inside.
Do you get my point? You can have knowledge, opinions, and reactions to things without being constantly full of a certain emotion or another.
If more people that were privileged and weren’t affected by things just shut the fuck up about them we’d be a lot better off. Like there’s no reason most of us should give a shit about gay marriage or what transgender people are doing. We’re not getting gay married or transitioning, we should mind our own business and leave commenting to the experts for whatever legislation is necessary. Instead we have all these conservative mfers throwing tantrums about all these issues and we all have to get involved to counter them just so people can go about their lives the way they want.
I’ve been on dating apps the last few years and while I always swipe left for Conservative, I also say fuck no to anyone Apolitical.
In these times anyone who supports or is ambivalent to the madness in our country is a shit person that I want nothing to do with.
Take a stand, pick a side or fuck right off.
conservatives should just stick to conservative apps, then again theres probably less conservative woman on those niche apps, as even these woman might find the conservative men too intolerable.
You do realize most people can’t really afford to care about politics right? When you’ve got people to care for, a job to work, a house to maintain, hobbies to participate in to keep a sane mind, how much time do you really have to spend on politics? Because whatever amount that is, it’s not enough. All sides spend a huge amount on propaganda and to see through all that takes more effort than normal people can spare.
Besides, there are far more important things you could focus on other than politics. That might depend on where you live and how old you are, but most people out there just don’t see the effect of politics beyond the occasional headline and higher taxes/inflation. Why not then spend the time you would spend on politics doing something that has an actual impact?
Hard disagree. Keeping up with politics takes very little of my time, and I’m a “normal person.” It doesn’t take deep research to figure out how a platform could help or harm the things you care about. I don’t know a single person of a vulnerable community affected by political decisions that has no political opinions. The only people that don’t care about politics are those unaffected by its consequences, and thus consent to the status quo.
I work full time and I’m paying my way through a degree after returning to school as a full time student (18 credit hours). I maintain several friendships, a relationship, a home, pets, and hobbies, and yet I find the time to understand the political climate, because sticking my head in the sand isn’t gonna help me when ICE comes for my friend, or the government takes away my right to medical care. If you don’t feel the effects of politics beyond the occasional headline, you live a privileged or ignorant life. If you choose to be apolitical, you are choosing the status quo.
The problem with that like I said is your opinions and beliefs become really shallow and you pretty much just swallow whatever you feel like believing. To actually make sense of politics takes a whole lot of time, though most people, even on lemmy, actually know really little of it. However everyone on this platform is super confident in their opinion, though they don’t seem to able to debate it at all.
This was the big issue with direct democracies. You can help the problem a bit with representative democracies or republics, but you still have people taking a few minutes or sometimes hours every couple years to vote for the one that sounds better to your ears. This is how you get someone like Trump as president. People can’t really be trusted with any decisions about something they know nothing about.
One person changes nothing anyway. What would my vote change in a 80% conservative region? I’d rather spend that time on things I enjoy.
*Bit of a different situation in the US, but the US isn’t the entire world.
Your landlord cares about politics… that’s why he votes people in who make sure renters have less rights.
Your boss cares about politics… that’s why he votes people in who make sure you can’t form a union, and keep the minimum wage low
You may not care about politics, but the people who have a direct impact on your life definitely do. And the longer you leave it to them, the less rights you’ll have.
True, but their votes also make no difference in the grand scheme of things. The only thing that does make a difference is if your boss is the CEO of a big company that donates to politicians. But you can’t counter that.
That you’d bring up the minimum wage argument kind of shows exactly what I was talking about. Most people think this is remotely relevant and keep bringing it up as an argument when all it does is show how little they know of how economy works. This is the kind of people that got Trump in office, no thinking, just parrotting what feels good to say because they’d like it to be true.
there was this clip of some kind of like dating show/bar event thing? Basically two people speed/blind date on stage and the audience waves green/red flags based on the conversation. Neat concept…
Anyways, man and woman go up and one of the first questions she asks is “who did you vote for?” and dude just shrinks. Does this whole “politics aren’t that important to me” and then “I didn’t vote”. And in the crowd all of the women are raising red flags. Because yea… they know what that signals.
In a later round another womans asks the same thing, and guy is like “that’s a personal thing” and “I don’t feel comfortable talking about it”… red flags going up.
This dipshits KNOW their poltical views are toxic to women. And instead of owning it, they’re trying to pretend to be “apolitical” because no woman will fuck them.
EDIT: I found the clip/vid.
Also, just realized, it’s the same guy. So first lady he’s like “I didn’t vote” and then later is like “okay I voted, but I don’t wanna say”… everyone knows bro… and that you’re still tryna hide/lie about it to get laid is pathetic.
Yup, they’re cowards on top of everything else. Can’t even stand up for what they purportedly believe in.
My side is that I don’t pick one. Hope it made you seethe.
Hope it made you seethe.
Priorities
You can tell which side he’s on by that comment alone
Nobody cares. Go back to 4chan.
Nobody cares.
Did you forget which post this comment section is under?
You speaking to me boy?
Not really. I don’t engage with maga edgelords.
you don’t have any safespace left to hide in boy
Safe space? I’m an OG internet troll. You suck at this.
I can maybe cut a little slack for someone who’s like “I don’t really understand politics or know history, so I don’t feel confident having a strong opinion” if they were curious and honest. We all start ignorant and not everyone had the good fortune to get a quality education.
But the aggressively ignorant and apathetic can fuck right off.
In your 20s sure. At my age there’s no excuse other than willfull ignorance and I’m not engaging with that. (I’m also not looking to date, thankfully)
I understand them, I’m informed, I have opinions that likely largely match yours, and Im a registered voter who routinely casts a ballot. I prefer to not discuss politics with anybody other than my spouse.
I’m not apolitical, but I also don’t believe there’s a career politician out there that actually cares about any of the issues that seem like a big deal to me. The ball players on your favorite baseball team do not care about your team getting to the playoffs – they care about their personal stats for leverage during contract negotiations when trade deadlines come around. Do not expect them to always dive for the ball.
I’m also fat as fuck.
I’m guessing you’d deem me apolitical and swipe left on me (if I were single and in your age group).
Unless you had an absolutely shit background or a learning disability, not understanding history or politics is a choice they made.
I’m not holding it against them that their brains might not have been developed or focused enough at that age to take in the information, but if you realize you are missing something critical later in life and don’t make moves to rectify it, that’s also a choice
I agree and the only folks I give a pass to are immigrants, otherwise if US born there’s absolutely no excuse to choose being uneducated or choosing to sit out politics.
Its not hard to fall for propaganda, its not easy to find information about politics that you can ensure is not misleading, doesnt miss context, doesnt contain false information
You could also be a genuinely non-intelligent adult who’s naturally vulnerable to the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Or you could be from a local / regional culture in which you’re essentially mistreated for entertaining progressive thoughts, or from shifting away from herd-thinking. Rural areas come to mind with all that.
Which is fine for existing in general but might not be OK for a potential partner. In the context of a dating app, I will 100% discriminate against people who are significantly less intelligent than myself. They may be perfectly lovely people but there is no chance that it would be a good romantic match. (If it were a hook up situation, maybe that’s different?)
I understand if someone doesn’t understand the federal budget and stuff like that.
Buy that’s no excuse for not having a strong opinion about rape, pedophilia and genocide.
Is your strong opinion on genocide in support of it or something?
It took me a whole year to educate myself on all the current issues of today which led me to a decision to finally vote. Nevertheless, I don’t look back.
it started when russia was getting thier hooks into social media around 2016, i became more aware of it.
“I don’t really understand politics or know history, so I don’t feel confident having a strong opinion”
That was my stance when I was ~16 when Trump was first coming into the political scene… When I got more curious, I got shut down for even asking “what has he said that was racist?” like it was a crime to even ask.
I was sooooo close to becoming a right winger, because the right wingers would JUMP at the chance to explain why they hated the people they hated. I disagreed with a lot but I bought enough lies to feel like the conservatives were overall the ones to vote for.
That era of my life was so embarrassing in retrospect. I was a teenager, but still. I still have a Trump hat my friend bought me in my closet.
You’re allowed to grow and change your mind with new information. Keep growing and learning and thinking and you may find yourself agreeing on an issue or two with your opponents. Never let your mind be so open that it’s closed. Being a brainless zealot is never good.
im guessing if you are not aware of trump and his history going back decades you would think he is “great”, alot of people seem to ignorant his past racist, business dealings.
I didn’t even know he was a celebrity before he got into politics tbh. I just knew he was brazen and 16 year old me found that appealing at the time.
Trump sure proved one thing, that USians don’t vote based on looks. Because a couple looks at how that saggy sack of rusty shit handles himself, should’ve been enough for anybody.
This here is the most to-the-point impression of Trump I’ve seen so far.
This is what the left refuses to understand: when you spit upon everyone who is even slightly less left than you, the recipients end up being driven rightward.
Example: Hexbear.net.
Evokes this comic https://thenib.com/fault-right/
I mean, that argument seems a little… hyperbolic.
It is possible for people to disagree and not be dicks about it.
Sure, but “you were mean to me so now I’m joining maga” is pretty silly.
Some people are like that, I guess, but if someone rudely explains how racism is deeply entrenched in the US that doesn’t mean they’re wrong. Rejecting their message because they were mean is childish.
You were the one who brought up that comic, not me. Yes, it is rather silly, or I would say reductionistic.
But the aggressively ignorant and apathetic can fuck right off.
I’m not (fully) disagreeing with your statement here btw.
Though this one here again is too reductionistic:
Rejecting their message because they were mean is childish.
I am saying read up about how human psychology works. Let’s use a hypothetical: a single mother, widowed even, is trying to take care of multiple children, and on her way to work every single leftist that she knew irl punched her in the face every single day. On outcome is that she would probably be unlikely to desire to spend the time to even so much as read what leftist philosophy is all about, and therefore she would come away with a false impression of what it even meant.
Consider the case of Christianity: do those who e.g. interrupt funeral proceedings holding signs and yelling at the top of their lungs how “god hates f4*s!” provide an accurate portrayal of their supposedly central message of showing love to one another (gentleness, faithfulness, self control, and the like)?
Likewise communists punching out not actual Nazis but merely the stressed out and uninformed - particularly those less intellectually endowed - is not likely to win many converts to the cause. But that’s just my two cents.
i.e. an echo chamber by a different name is still an echo chamber.
Fortunately your intellect is far to great for you to be caught in a echo chamber.
Can you explain why communism isn’t truly left, and how dialectical materialism is similar to MAGA thought? Both of those concepts are highly confusing.
Also, the idea that political struggle from the left drives people rightward doesn’t seem to bear out in reality. I always see this concept coming from conservatives, but I have always seen it as an excuse for people to blame their own right-wing views on others.
tankies are more liken to conservatives then like to admit.
How are communists more liken to fascists?
Echo chambers that deny facts in favor of their preferred view of reality? (e.g. that Ukraine is the aggressor rather than Russia) Check.
Tribal politicking, where facts chiefly matter depending on who is speaking them? Check.
Refusal to update one’s viewpoint after seeing incontrovertible evidence that would otherwise demand it, if someone’s goal was truth? Check.
Making use of every logical fallacy to sow FUD in their opponents? Check.
A better strategy might be to stop thinking of humans as “opponents” and rather than “beat them”, aid their thinking to enlighten and uplift them by knowledge, essentially turning an opponent into a true ally, as opposed to merely a worn down victim of bullying practices.
Moral purity beatings will continue until morale improves.
All of what you said applies to you, though, which is why the only example you gave was the strawman idea that Ukraine is the aggressor, rather than NATO. No matter how many facts I have given you, irrefutable evidence, you generally dismissed it as “propaganda” while sowing FUD everywhere. Seriously, there are only a handful of people as obsessed with communists on this collection of websites that I’ve seen, and I only really recognize you because you kept mentioning me long after we had had a conversation.
I still have a Trump hat my friend bought me in my closet
You should keep it. You never know when you gotta go undercover.
That’s fine. You were in your blunder years and not even old enough to vote. At least you were paying attention and willing to learn.
There are people three times your age who’ve voted for that pedo rapist three consecutive times and still support him, even as he burns their world to the ground.
Unlike them, you were smart enough to avoid the cult. Be proud of that, if nothing else.
I’m 26 now and I’m constantly dumbfounded at the sheer unwillingness of my peers and the older generations to truly listen to their political opponents.
When I was a teen I was listening to Steven Crowder, Sargon of Akkad, etc. but I at least eventually got around to giving people like Anita Sarkesian and Lacy Green a chance. It only took about a year to realize that they weren’t saying anything to warrant the right pissing their panties as hard as they were. It also took significantly less time than that to realize that people like Steven and Sargon were assholes. AND I WAS A TEEN.
That kinda shit makes it hard not to be pessimistic. I can at least hope that the generations after mine won’t contract their willful ignorance, and this BS will die with my generation.
most people arnt that honest, alot of them that are ignorant about it and they dont think it affects them if they ignore it(so they think it will get them into arguments, so they ignore it as much as possible). the “apoliticals” are conservatives though, i suspect the even ignorant ones lean conservatives it comes time to vote, because they are less informed.
This is the stance of someone in for a long road of loneliness. Enjoy.
Take a stand, pick a side or fuck right off.
I dunno, everyone says this of the issues about which they care but other ones are too large etc.
For example, do you feel the same way about say, sweatshop clothes? In that we should take a stand,pick a stand or fuck off?
Personally, I feel the 12 year olds making the most of the clothes I see when I walk down the street is much more important than most national issues in my country AND is something where individual action really matters but, it’s also an issue that requires actual sacrifice and work. Much easier to be angry at people online over politics…
I think it’s pretty clear that if you “have no opinion” in sweatshops, you’ve chosen the far right. Every normal person is against them.
Every normal person is against them.
Against them but also wearing their products, which is even worse. What’s the point of being “against” something then? It’s like saying you’re “against” trump but sitting out the elections.
You know that “but yet, you participate in society. curious.” Meme?
You uhh, don’t think you can participate in society using fewer sweatshop endorsed clothes? Like thrift stores don’t exist or?
Have you heard this term “fast fashion” being used more in recent years? That’s all about that
You don’t know that you’re allowed to sit out immoral trends, like fast fashion? Or is being trendy more important than what’s right?
I think there’s a difference between “I affirmatively do not care” and “there’s no purely way to be ethical, and that horror has fallen under my personal bar for attention right now”
It’s also significant if you go out of your way to say you’re not making a decision on the issue. That, in and of itself, is often a very significant decision to make.
If you’re not taking sides, you’re siding with whoever is the oppressor.
I used to think I could be neutral. Then someone told me that neutral can easily be manipulated. I settled after a year of educating myself. It’s impossible to be completely unbiased. People who say they don’t care, actually care too much, they whine and grumble about everything and wonder why it gets bad–they don’t do anything about the issues that affect them. It takes a really big leap to get out of the undecided ‘pit’.
I don’t do politics
You’re just entitled.
Okay, well, I do have some political views I’ve been sitting on. Let me say one of the-
Shut the fuck up, loser. Nobody agrees with you and your ideas are stupid. Never talk to me about politics again.
Uhhh… what?
Are your views stupid or is the other person stupid? The answer will reveal the solution to this issue.
Unironically though, saying you don’t do politics because you want to avoid conflict is a form of the privilege OP is talking about. Choosing to avoid politics to save yourself mild discomfort can have life-threatening effects on others. Saying you don’t want to discuss it is fine, but if that causes you to become uninformed it’s probably not wise for your effect on societal health.
Are your views stupid or is the other person stupid?
Views differ. All I know for certain is that if two people have divergent views, the best thing for them to do is to grow increasingly angry and disparaging towards one another until one finally concedes the other is correct and admits everything they’d believed up to that moment is wrong.
Unironically though, saying you don’t do politics because you want to avoid conflict is a form of the privilege
Which is why the people with the most social privilege are always the most soft-spoken, while the people with the least privilege are the loudest and most agitating, right?
I remember driving through Vidor, TX with a friend and him turning to me saying “Just don’t get us pulled over, because I’m not going to make it back if we do”. That coward was attempting to avoid conflict with a notoriously racist local police force. I, of course, did donuts in the Vidor PD parking lot. Because I believed it was my duty to provoke a conflict in order to prove that I was sincere in my liberal beliefs.
Saying you don’t want to discuss it is fine
Literally what’s happening in OP’s comic.
I don’t think they realized you were pointing out hypocrisy using sarcasm.
I did think it was odd, usually I agree with weevil
Yeah it also took me a minute to realize what was going on.
Literally what’s happening in OP’s comic.
“I don’t do politics” could mean a lot of things. It usually means they don’t discuss it, but it also often means they don’t participate or know much about it.
I’m not saying you need to endanger yourself by talking about politics in situations that vould get you hurt. Almost the opposite, actually-- I’m saying that when people do have the social capital to spend on supporting those who can’t easily express their views, they should take the time to understand and help them politically.
“I don’t do politics” could mean a lot of things.
Which is where the critique falls apart.
I’m not saying you need to endanger yourself by talking about politics
It doesn’t have to rise to the level of existential threat. Plenty of people don’t feel comfortable voicing outside views in front of what could easily be a hostile audience.
What’s cowardly is presenting the “I don’t have a politics” person as nebulously white and atheist and male, while the counterpart is explicitly brown and muslim and a woman. The bitter truth is that it’s far more often the opposite. Women and religious/ethnic minorities are the ones who are perpetually under pressure to “hide their power level” so to speak. Either because they really do fear some kind of physical or social reprisal. Or because they just don’t want to have a screaming match with a MAGA shithead at a BBQ they didn’t want to be at to begin with.
It’s the Entitled Asshole who feels the need to vomit political views into every discussion and “have a debate” on every issue.
when people do have the social capital to spend on supporting those who can’t easily express their views, they should take the time to understand and help them politically
Who the fuck says they’re not? Do you think it’s your job to audit someone else’s life, to see if they’re doing enough and for the right people to meet some bar you’ve set for sufficient political engagement? It’s none of your fucking business.
That would still seem like a method of “doing politics.” Satisfaction with the status quo -> do nothing to change the status quo and accept the repercussions for doing nothing. When you’re a public figure, people look to you for leadership, whether you want them to or not. That’s one of the costs of fame.
