It’s a movie starring his nephew in the lead role, approved by his estate, and by all accounts it just feels like an attempt to whitewash him. This is a man who was accused of being a serial child molester, settled with a family out of court for $25 million just to avoid a trial (Chandler), and openly admitted he slept in the same bed as kids while he was an adult (Bashir interview), among other things. I don’t really see what there is to debate.
Anything pointing this out gets backlash on movie-related subreddits, which I find wild. It makes me wonder, if Epstein could sing and dance, would he have gotten a biopic too? Would people be defending him like this?
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We will never have the truth in our entire lives. But! I kind of see how MJ could actually not be a pedo, but just a special flavor of weirdo.
Imagine that you are born into a family of 8 (2 came shortly after) that live in 2 bedroom home. Paretns are working class and an oppressed minority, so are you. At age 5 parents put you in a family band where they forced you to play and punished for mistakes made during rehearsals and performances. Time goes by. Your band becomes a sensation. You are the front man. You grow out of it and go solo. You are consistently the most famous artist. All eyes on you. Everyone knows each and every step you make, in tiny details.
All that while your childhood was spent never having own corner, never having time to play with other children. You are constantly performing everywhere. Your life is not like “the other kids”.
Now you are famous as hell with a millions to your name. You can do pretty much anything. And you, of course, might get that feeling of wasted time that you probably can catch up with. You attempt to create a real Neverland, spend tons of time with children, try to make their lives magical and wonderful. You do things for childer that you’ve dreamed you’d like to have when you were a child yourself. BUT you are at the age of 30 and every one assumes that you diddle children. Which, again, might be true. We cant possibly deny false accusations in favor of getting rich by settlements. And that baby over the balcony didnt help either.
I, honestly, feel bad for him. Great musician, vocals are top notch and unmatched. Dancing moves out of this world. Great showmanship. Terrible personal life full of abuse, discrimination, specualtions, accusations, failed childhood. Poor guy. He was fucked up in head. Maybe not in pedofilic way. But he was certainly not fine. All that life experience plus super likely drug abuse since we are talking about show biz.
Just tacking on to your comment… The Jackson’s were aggressively exploited by most of the key adults in their lives from a relatively young age. Michael was like 10 when the Jackson 5 had their first big hit single. Joe Jackson and Berry Gordy recognized they had a “cash cow” on their hands and resolved to squeeze it for every penny they could.
Dealing with a relentless work schedule where you’re harshly punished for your mistakes and then having your life shoved under a microscope for the entire world to see would break a lot of adults. It’s no wonder Michael went off the rails.
At the very least they could have made a better movie that acknowledged the abuse and how screwed up he became because of it. Would be a far better story too, the movie is essentially just an extended highlights reel
I agree. Movie is plain cash grab made up out of highlights of MJs life. Nothing “true” is in this movie besides already widely known facts.
It is just weird to me that OP lines up MJ with someone like Epstein. I just feel that these are two different types of creep that cant be really compared.
From hearing Macaulay Vulking tell it, it sounds exactly like that. Like Jackson was stuck as a child and just wanted childhood friends and sleepovers. Weird, sure but nothing sexual. He has other accusers, but I really dont know if that was just people being creeped out by his weirdness or not and misinterpreting things.
We will never know. But coming to the fact that after death not so much surfaced, I am pretty sure poor guy was just unstable mentally and not a pedo like Epstein.
His life is something few if any of us could bare. No flashy movie will be able to show it in full picture.
But coming to the fact that after death not so much surfaced
Grow up. His estate spent millions in hush money and NDAs. He may have died, but he’s still a money maker.
Nothing woke about believing Hollywood tabloids.
MJ was framed for the crime of not participating in the Epstein stuff. Just like every other “off the deep end” celebrity apparently.
IMO if MJ did stuff McCulley Calkin would 100% have been a victim and not be defending him.
Jackson was certainly strange in his personal life, but I don’t think he diddled any kids.
As for his documentary, yeah it’s kinda whitewashing with how closely it’s tied to his estate. Why now? Well, Elton John got one, Freddie Mercury got one, everyone’s gettin’ one.
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In lieu of facts, I think most apologists who know the broad strokes of his life tend to address his behavior as the result of the significant abuse he received as a kid. I’m not really familiar with his behavior beyond the highlights, but I don’t know if he was ever accused of having raped any of the kids. I know he generally engaged in very creepy behavior with the kids, and the pedophilia was heavily implied though.
To answer your question, yes, I think it’s a creepy cashgrab at best. I might watch it on a long flight out of curiosity if it’s available, but I don’t forsee seeking it out.
I’m not really familiar with his behavior beyond the highlights, but I don’t know if he was ever accused of having raped any of the kids.
Leaving Neverland will erase any doubts you may have. He raped a lot of kids.
creepy cashgrab
That’s being very generous, considering it’s a guileless PR move to normalize pederasty, et al (for the 1%) in the public opinion. 🤬
That’s a cash grab? He’s been dead for almost 2 decades. They’ve made a film about Steve Jobs before his body got to room temperature.
Something being a cash grab has no relation to how recent the thing it’s about happened… How have you managed to think that’s the case?
but I don’t know if he was ever accused of having raped any of the kids.
The first accuser…
But that one was weird. The kids parents were divorced and the mom had custody.
So the kid, his siblings, and mom hung out with MJ, and he took them to all types of shit, like award shows, giant concerts, trips all over the world. But not the ex husband, because the family was already split when they met MJ.
Ex husband initially was super pissed, then one day did a 180 and started pushing hard for unsupervised overnight trips that had never happened before. Then the ex-husband (who was a dentist) gave his kid a bunch of laughing gas for a “procedure” and claimed that in that state the child told him of the abuse.
MJ settled because that’s what people did, and the second that happened the floodgates opened.
He was weird as fuck, and any parent that was letting him spend nights unsupervised with their child is a piece of shit…
That doesn’t mean anything bad actually happened tho. There’s no real evidence it did, but it’s impossible to prove it never happened.
Allegedly this prevented them from depicting the victims in any way, and there was an expensive re-shoot to end the plot earlier in the story at the Victory Tour.
We also need to remember that some people have reason to believe that he was outspoken about protecting the children from Epstein and that culture of child rape and trafficking. And those people, who believe this, also believe that your belief and opinions about MJ being a child rapist was a smear job against them by the Epstein Class.
Sadly, no. Although he seemed like a much nicer rapist i guess. So there’s that.
This whole thread is long well written comments that show all sides and provide good info and you’re just there replying to almost all if them with “NO, HE RAPE! 😡”. You’re making such a fool of yourself and it’s been hilarious to scroll down and see more and more of your dumb comments.
Yeah all the MJ threads on every platform are like this. Those who have seen the evidence and understand what it means about this person and those who haven’t seen it and don’t want to even think about it.
And just to be clear, I’m saying what the evidence says. So my fool self and dumbness are irrelevant. Sorry.
That’s optimal, making a fool of themselves while pretending to the the smartest man in the room.
if Epstein could sing and dance, would he have gotten a biopic too?
rolling stone and aerosmith have movies, so yes.
Woke is when you realize america as a whole culture is fucked. Every other micro problem is a distraction from it that helps keep things running.
The original final third of the film dealt with the child abuse allegations. They filmed it all. And then one of the victims lawyers reminded them that they were not legally allowed to depict him in any way, so they had to scrap it
No, You are not too woke. However, being accused of a crime is not the same as committing the crime. Sleeping in bed with a child isn’t a crime. Settling out of court isn’t an admission of guilt. Making a biopic about Michael Jackson, the king of pop, is a no brainer for me.
I guess it depends. Is it factual and balanced or does it ignore that creepy part of his life? Being approved by the e$tate makes me doubt that.
IMO, where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Much has been said of his “child-like wonder and innocence”, but he wasn’t special needs or anything; he was still an adult! Like the rest of us, he made choices knowing how they would be viewed. Sure, maybe one family made shit up, hoping for a payday. But to then continue doing the same things after the initial accusation, bringing children into your bed at night…!? Personally, I would have installed cameras everywhere, hired a childcare person to always be there with the children, and, y’know, not have them sleep in my bed overnight. It would prove there was nothing going on, protect his reputation and fortune, give the parents peace of mind, etc. But he didn’t do any of that…
So some people’s struggles get labelled as “special needs” and are treated differently, while others are viewed with suspicion and aren’t even attempted to be understood?
Yes, the difference is a diagnosis. And confronting them. My issues are not my fault, but they are mine to deal with. But let’s not forget we’re talking about literal child predation. Alleged, yes; but that can’t be dismissed as a “struggle” without it being a slap in the face to victims…
Not sure if I can add anything to the rest of your comment worth discussing, but I don’t think a diagnosis is the end-all be-all of how to treat someone’s mental state. Similarly to how laws are a (bad) approximation of morals, diagnoses are only an approximation of someone’s mental state.
I haven’t done an extensive amount of research, but from what I understand, Michael was abused himself and after gaining his wealth used it to protect children. Was he weird yes but none of the kids he was friends with ever accused him but one of those kids parents did. BTW those kids are all 30 and 40 year olds now so if they wanted to report anything it’s not like they could be stopped but instead they and especially the child who’s parents accused Michael support Michael. I would strongly advise you to research into this more because what you’re stating seems like tabloidized bullshit.
10 undeniable facts
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There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boy’s house with Chandler’s mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandler’s father’s house. The parents were divorced.
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So far, five boys Michael Jackson shared beds with have accused him of abuse: Jordie Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, and Jimmy Safechuck. Jackson had the same nickname for Chandler and Arvizo: “Rubba.” He called Robson “Little One” and Safechuck “Applehead.”
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Jackson paid $25 million to settle the Chandlers’ lawsuit, with $18 million going to Jordie, $2.5 million to each of the parents, and the rest to lawyers. Jackson said he paid that sum to avoid something “long and drawn out.” Francia also received $2.4 million from Jackson.
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Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.
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The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.
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Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.
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According to the Neverland staff interviewed by the Santa Barbara authorities, no one ever saw or knew of a woman spending the night with Michael Jackson, including his two spouses, Debbie Rowe or Lisa Marie Presley. Rowe, the mother of two of Jackson’s children, made it clear to the Santa Barbara authorities that she never had sex with Jackson.
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The parents of boys Jackson shared beds with were courted assiduously and given myriad expensive gifts. Wade Robson’s mother testified in the 2005 trial that she funneled wages through Jackson’s company and was given a permanent resident visa. Jimmy Safechuck’s parents got a house. Jordie Chandler’s mother got a diamond bracelet.
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Two of the fathers of those who have accused Jackson, Jordie Chandler and Wade Robson, committed suicide. Both were estranged from their sons at the time.
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In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.
I thought I heard the drawings did not match
If the dick doesn’t fit, you must acquit!
I used to base my opinion of MJ on what Macaulay Culkin said. I was not aware of the rest of this. You’ve given me a lot to think about, thank you.
The Culkin defense never made much sense anyway. For a practical, personal example: if one of my dad’s wealthy friends was accused of child molestation by multiple children, me saying, “Oh, but he never did anything to me,” wouldn’t discredit the victims at all. As the child of a friend (and same circles), I would clearly be of a “higher status” and therefore protected.
Culkin was a famous child; predators are often selective with their victims. The argument here is that MJ targeted “lower class” children while treating famous ones well. That way, if accusations ever surfaced, the less privileged kids would be branded as money-hungry liars because the famous ones would publicly insist, “He treated me well.”
Lol, people like his music and have empathy toward him so they’re just… dismissing this entire list, along with any other evidence!
I don’t know shit about Michael Jackson, but if he never had sex with his wife, how did she give birth to his kids? Did they do IVF?
Sperm donor.
Ah, okay. So he was ace/gay and agreed to be a father to his wife’s bastards? Cool, that’s a really mature attitude. I’m ace and I’m okay with My partners fucking other people. But I don’t know if I’d be willing to raise their kids.
No, he was a pedo who used women as a shield/incubators. Lisa Marie Presley (his first wife) publicly said that they’d fight about having kids & MJ would tell her “Debbie will have them for me then”. It’s not about being gay.
Have you never met a gay guy? They are not attracted to women, that doesn’t mean they aren’t capable of impregnating one. There’s all kinds of ways that can happen, from an altered mental state, to assault, to just “giving in” to a partner, to a fertility doctor, etc…
So again, I’m not an expert and I’m not particularly a fan of Jackson, but I am interested in mysteries and such. I want to pick at your point number four because that’s the one that I’m most familiar with. From my understanding and reading of the documents, the description in doesn’t match because the description was for a circumcised dick while MJs autopsy confirmed he was uncut. Personally, I think it’s far more likely that Michael was just a rich eccentric and not fully developed weirdo who a bunch of actual pedophiles used as a scapegoat.
It matched the description of his dick, except for the question of whether he was circumcised. Prosecutors also raised concerns that Jackson may have altered his dick during his “media break” in Europe, when the allegations of molestation emerged. During that time, he went into hiding for several months. There is also uncertainty about whether Jordan mentioned circumcision at all, since none of the sources that confirmed the match refer to it. Lauren Weis, who took the original description and is now a judge, later confirmed the match on the Telephone Stories podcast. Lead investigator Bill Dworin also confirmed it. Dermatologist Dr. Strick, who examined Jackson during the strip search, documented the presence of unusual markings. District Attorney Tom Sneddon also confirmed it.
It matched the description of his dick, except for the question of whether he was circumcised. Prosecutors also raised concerns that Jackson may have altered his dick during his “media break” in Europe, when the allegations of molestation emerged.
Lol, you sound like a conspiracy nut. Sure, it matches the description of a penis, just not one of the most easily noticeable features of his penis. And that’s easily explained by a ‘modification’ that has been asserted by people known to lie to win cases. Iron clad logic there, Sherlock.
The fact they only “raised concerns” about it, despite nothing of the sort being mentioned in the autopsy, should tell you all you need to know. If he had surgery to alter his dick, they wouldn’t have left out that shit, especially since his penis was going to be a subject of interest for this exact reason. Prosecutors can ‘raise’ whatever concerns they like, that does not mean the concern has any merit aside from trying to shape the narrative.
To expand on this point, do you think Renee Goode was trying to run over the ice officer just because that’s the way the state portrayed the event? Was Alex Pretti a threat to the officers when they disarmed and murdered him?
Re “fact” 7 - so he was probably gay. How is that in any way relevant to allegations of child abuse? Unless you’re pushing the homophobic argument that gay men are all pedophiles, and vice versa? How very “woke” of you.
Maybe you’re the one forcing people into neat, categorized boxes. Unlike ~90 percent of men, he apparently didn’t release sexual tension with women, at least not primarily. It’s a simple mathematical elimination of options. So… was this healthy, energetic man fulfilling it with men? Was he asexual? Or were the accusations true? Again, it’s a puzzle piece, not the whole picture…
All of these can be denied XD
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I’ve yet to see anyone say anything about the trailer other than no, I’ll wait for the Jimmy Saville movie, so it’s safe to say that it’s widely considered absurd that anyone would make or want to watch the movie.
No not “too woke”, don’t apologise for calling this bullsh*t out. People make lots of excuses for him but he settled one case; he was aquitted in one case but further people have made accusations - supposedly 10-15 (including a family with 5 children).
The Michael Jackson biopic is definitely a whitewash; it’s produced by the estate that has a vested interest in protecting his financial legacy. It was going to try to cast doubt on the Chandler case but settlement from that case actually agreed no movie representing the family could be made by Jackson or his estate.
It’s not woke to find this disgusting.
It’s been long enough for the estate to start working on expanding the avenues of profit. They would see maximum profit long-term by rewriting his history.
You could make an MJ biopic that was critical of his relationship with children and celebrated his musical career — you don’t have to uncritically depict people as 100% evil or 100% good. I suspect they haven’t, but I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve had a chance to see the film.
