- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
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The trackpads are pretty useless on their own but when combined with the virtual menu system in steam they become S+ tier
Hmm, so worthless for GOG?
Definitely picking this up. I’m always interested in exploring new avenues in ergonomics. I got the original Steam controller when it came out. I thought it was an admirable first attempt but wasn’t quite there yet. Particularly I thought the lack of dual analog sticks and a true D-pad was a problem, all of which seem to have been solved here.
I want this controller but split down the center so I can walk with them on a treadmill. There are joycons and third party joycons but none that I’ve found with the little track pads. That’d be HUGE.
linus tech tips did a video on this
Since i play mainly racing games with gyro and racing pedals, I’m seriously considering this one. More so because I’m using OG steam controller as my main controller.
250hz? Competition is at 8k already.
This is a nothingburger of an argument. But yeah it’s kinda weird considering the rest of the tech they put in.
Huh? Polling rate is of huge importance for many players. There’s a reason response times are first on the list on Gamepadla.
On a controller ??? I am curious i would think it at most ads latency, so it gives new values every 4ms. But that is already measured in the latency test gamers Nexus did, and it performed very good. I think around 18ms (don’t quote me on that). And what is the reason it’s first on gamepedia ?(just curious not meant in bad faith)
I was pretty excited for this controlled but $149 CAD is too much for me.
I’ll be buying it when it goes for sale. Until then, my current peripherals work just fine
I replaced the old one with an 8bitdo and it’s great. The old steam controller had configuration issues in many games.
Maybe not the controllers fault but rather the games that do not support it super well.
Xinput is extremely plug and play and steam controller was more time configuring than gaming. Claire obscure 33 did not really support it for me and xinput out of the box.
This controller is very obviously nothing like the original, and comes years after concerted effort to maximize controller support through the Deck.
It costs $99/€99/£85/$149 AUD
This is funny, because amer*can currency is nowhere near strong enough to be comparable to EUR now
American prices reflect the lower purchasing power within the US interior because pricing has to be the same across state lines (because otherwise people would take advantage of state discounts, similar to how people take advantage of the no-VAT states). The US even has programs where banks give free money (usually 100-300$) to open accounts in order to incentivize people to spend and churn their financial institutions.
A huge chunk of the American economy is predicated on uneducated people being goaded into overspending by giving them extra money they think they can spend on non-necessities. For example: a bank gives you 100$ for opening an account, so you buy a 150$ sofa using their credit card, predicated on the fact that sofa purchase wouldn’t’ve occurred without the stimulus. Because financial literacy is so low in the US, the bank makes a net profit because a large enough cohort of credit users won’t pay their balances at the end of the month and end up paying 25% interest (which is roughly the interest charged on these credit cards).
I’m lower middle class, and I absolutely take advantage of my vacation times to fly to or near VAT-free states to buy big ticket electronics and similar. If I could stack that and fly to Montana for no VAT and “poor state” pricing, I absolutely would.
Yeah, but because the price in the US is pre-tax the real price is around $108 which is still less than €99 but not by that much. Also, yeah USD is weakened but that also means people there are making less money so they have less purchasing power, it’s common for companies to price the same thing lower on low-income countries and higher on high-income ones to compensate.
it doesn’t make sense to put only one price without tax
americans have less purchasing power than before not than europeans
it doesn’t make sense to put only one price without tax
That’s done because that’s the norm in the USA, if you advertise a price without tax on Europe you will be legally bound to sell at that price.
americans have less purchasing power than before not than europeans
I didn’t meant to imply that Americans have less purchasing power than Europeans (although they might, I don’t know) but rather than it’s common for companies to price things differently according to purchasing power and while the dollar did lose power that also means it’s people lost purchasing power so it makes sense to keep it the same price instead of increasing it to compensate as otherwise they might loose sales.
99€ is with tax and 99$ is pre-tax? No?
kinda-ish, but why is one price sans tax and the others with it
Cuz other countries have strong consumer laws that make it so the price you see is the price you pay. Whereas here in the US we like to hide things like taxes and fees to 1. Make consumers overspend and 2. Make consumers extremely aware of the taxes they pay so that anytime reducing taxes on the rich comes up they think “yeah, I hate taxes, let’s lower them!”
For reference, $99 are like 85€ nowadays.
Except EU price has VAT included
Oh, I didn’t know that.
So they earn less by each sold controller in European countries with higher VAT?
Thanks Obama
sadly it won’t work with the Switch 2 I assume :c
Change my mind: Xbox-X controller are best controllers.
They are asymmetrical, arguably better from ergonomics. They have replaceable batteries (AA rechargeable batteries have been a thing for half a century). If the battery gets too old to hold a good charge, i can get new (rechargeable) batteries without having to fiddle about to change the internal batteries.
It’s about €60 which goes on sale occasionally and can grab it as low as €40. Perhaps lower but that’s the lowest I’ve seen.
The downsides: due to replaceable AA battery, hull effect sticks are impossible due to them requiring a consistent output. Mouse movement is not a thing unless if you are on steam then it can be programmed different ways (mouse bindings or pressing xbox button and right analog stick and bumpers).
Doesn’t have gyro. I like playing games without aim assist preferring raw input aiming with mouse bound to the gyro.
I’d pick up other third party controllers over a Xbox these days, since hall effect and TMR sticks are standard. Extra grip buttons are common on third party controllers too without paying Xbox Elite prices, which are notorious for breaking down despite the premium price. And lot of third party controllers offer gyro too.
My 360 controller still works and I’ve used them for playing through Yakuza on the PC. But, when it comes to buying a new controller Xbox is last on my list now. Too many missing features while not being cheaper than the alternatives out there.
Change my mind: Xbox-X controller are best controllers.
There is no absolute best controller, because everyones hands and preferences are different.
Xbox may be best, for you, and thats fine, its great you have a controller that fits your hand comfortably and plays well.
but, for example, for me? Dualshock/Dualsense controllers fit my hands better, and are more playable, because I prefer the symmetrical joystick layout, vs the asymmetrical of Xbox/Switch Pro.
I’m sure theres someone out there where the SNES style 8bitdo works and feels best for them, too.
I think we can, however, universally agree on prices being too expensive for all of them.
Fair point.
My all time favorite controller was ds3. ds4 was pretty decent too but it seemed that ds3 had better batteries. Also the batteries would stop holding charge, most likely the battery capacity degraded.
I then got X360 controller which for some reason was not the best, started preferring the asymmetrical design felt better. I was gaming like a degenerate back then and it used to feel better in long sessions. Although I didn’t like the weight.
Haven’t tried the xbox one controller, the xbox-x controller felt great. Perfect, weighty. I do gave on the newer ds5 controller, it’s alright but feels a bit lighter and weird as I have gotten used to the weight of xbox-x controller. I however haven’t tested games with the new triggers, as i have only played at my friends and party or group games which doesn’t use those.
I still have 2 ds3, 3 ds4, 1 xbox and 2 xbox X controller
The go to is the xbox-x controllers, which probably comes as no-surprise given my original bait of a post :D
The downsides: due to replaceable AA battery, hull effect sticks are impossible due to them requiring a consistent output.
So basically it’s the worst controller imaginable?
Well not as bad as the ones that stop being wireless if the battery goes to zero. Or needs soldering if the battery gets to old to replace the battery.
Depends on which needs fixing more and which is easier to fix between a new joystick with the stick drift or old battery that holds barely any charge.
But to each their own.
The main problem with Xbox controllers is they are expensive and come with no battery. Including a rechargable battery pack, they cost more than a lot of better alternatives.
At this point it makes more sense to just buy a third party controller, which will be higher quality, as well as cheaper, and include features like hall effect sticks and more or less easily replaceable battery.
hull effect sticks are impossible due to them requiring a consistent output.
record skip
wat?
Apparently having a replaceable battery and hull affect joysticks are impossible. This is due to AA battery not being able to provide consistent voltage output and hull effect joystick requiring exactly that. Hence all hull-effect joysticks have embedded battery. Which might be a problem specially in EU as they require everything to have removable battery with the exception is if they are IPS something rated.
Don’t quote me on that, it’s second hand knowledge.
Stick placement is not really a factor for ergonomics for me. I had used an xbox controllers for a long time, but now I have a PS5 controller as my current go to. The biggest thing that makes a difference is shape and how it sits in your hands, and for me the PS5 controller is just simply better than the Xbox controller.
I think the best way I can describe the difference between the two is that to be comfortable the xbox controller sits on my fingers where as the PS5 controller sits in my palms. I can also throw in a few other examples of this, PS4 sits in my fingers, but also has the worlds worst and most uncomfortable triggers. The Switch pro controller sits mostly in my palms and is better than the xbox controller but only has digital triggers.
As for the battery, internal batteries are annoying if you can not replace them. According to gamers nexus you can tear down and replace the battery fairly easily in the steam controller, and apparently valve plan to work with iFixit again for spares. So I don’t think this is a big difference either way because of the benefits you get from having the higher powered internal battery.
That also leads to by far the biggest pro. Repair-ability. The steam controller if it is supported like the steam deck is just going to be better.
Fuck. I was hoping to buy 4 for my kids. Imagine 5-8 y/o holding $400 in their hands.
each would be holding $99, innit?
They clearly meant the cumulative age when two of the four children are holding the controllers together (must be a new Gen Alpha & Beta activity). The youngest child is 2 years old, the twins are 3 years old and the big boss is already 5 years old. There is no other reasonable way to interpret this.
More, because plus tax!
2 + 2 friends, 4 controllers 🤣
Maybe they’re an octopus.
While I kinda understand the steep price, not being able to use with other than Steam is a deal breaker for me. Yes, you can create shortcuts inside Steam and use the controller like that probably but still. On the other hand, I can use the old Steam controller even on a browser alongside with the rest of my OS.
Someone will make it work within a few weeks.
That’s pretty huge to me too. My main use would be with Moonlight, an open source version of Steam Link, and if it can’t connect to that Android TV to begin with, it’s worthless.
Strange that the Xbox and PlayStation controllers are now more open and reusable.
I think it’s only Windows and Mac that are like that. Linux you can install just the steam-devices package for Valve hardware drivers.
Yeah, thinking about how SteamOS works, I think we might actually be in the clear.
Good to hear, good to hear.
fuck emThe steam-devices package is just udev rules and the drivers are already built into the kernel, right? So there’s a good chance you’ll just already have the drivers!
(…in theory. Debian critters may want to run testing+unstable rather than stable for the next while, if the new steam controller needs specially written drivers that won’t be in current stable.)
– Frost
Indeed, and to expand a bit on this, it’s very likely that the drivers have been in the kernel for a while, after all the Steam Deck has the exact same inputs so it’s very likely that it uses the same driver.
Probably. I haven’t looked that deep. I only know that Steam Flatpak asks me to install the steam-devices package from my distro for device support until I do.
I’m about to buy two, let’s gooooo
While we’re on the subject. Who can recommend me and better cheaper alternative?
Depends on what you want from the controller. Very few have the track pads for example. But there are a lot of good controllers out there these days. I stuck with the Flydigi Vader 4. Gyro that can be mapped to right stick for motion controls in any game. 2 extra buttons, 4 extra back paddles (only 2 are particularly usable on the back). Great polling rate. Xbox ergonomics. Clicky mechanical face buttons. Analog triggers. Hall effect sticks. Customizable RGB but not too much of it. Has 2.4GHz dongle, works with xinput, dinput, and works on Switch.
I think Vader 5 is out now. I think it has TMR sticks but I’m not sure what else is different.
Gamesir Nova Lite 2 is a good budget controller with a lot of the same features for less than an official Xbox controller.
Gamesir G7 Pro is a good alternative to the Vader but I haven’t used it.
8BitDo makes some fun and unique controllers but their latency is not always great, and the ergonomics for the Ultimate feels off to me. I get a lot of use out of their Pro 2 controllers which are really nice for 2D games. They’re basically a Dual shock 4 + SNES controller. Also has gyro, paddles, xinput, dinput, and Switch modes. The Pro 3 is out now with a few more improvements but I’m good for now.
No trackpads so not entirely better, but the Gulikit Es Pro are a lot cheaper.
Happy with 8bitdo. Haptics are great.
I recommend the GameSir Super Nova. Probably the best controller I’ve ever used. Not really expensive; costs a little less than standard Xbox/PS controllers in my country. Works on all platforms and comes with a very nice charging dock.
A note for any Windows users. The controller works flawlessly out of the box on Linux, but I’ve been running into issues when trying it on my Windows work machine. For some reason it doesn’t work with the wireless receiver plugged into the charging dock, only with the receiver directly in the PC. Their Windows app doesn’t seem to fix the issue, but offers quite a few customization options.
I’m quite happy with my 8BitDo 2 Ultimate, which has many features of the Steam Controller like TMR sticks, 4 extra rear buttons and gyro and has a better polling rate at 1000 Hz and is cheaper (~$56). It does however lack the track pads and advanced haptic feedback of the Steam Controller.
Thanks!
Get the wireless version. Not the bluetooth version. Reason is because the 8bitdo ultimate 2 wireless got a firmware update so it supports dinput mode when you power it on while holding down the B button. That provides full Steam Input support to rebind the extra 2 bumpers and paddles to any input you want. Wireless version does have bluetooth support, but difference is just that the one with the bluetooth name is one that connects to the Switch console over bluetooth and the wireless one made more with PC support in mind. Which is the reason it got dinput update while the bluetooth version didn’t.
Honestly I’ve never found a game where the track pads on the steam deck were ever actually… Useful compared to the normal thumbsticks. Or any games where they actually worked decently as a track pad for a cursor.
Genuinely what exactly is the point of them?
People seem to like the idea of just having to use when they need mouse input instead of having to grab a mouse or using the touchpads to type something quickly over grabbing a keyboard. Useful if you are gaming in the living room, so more a convenience.
For gameplay others have liked setting up touch menus. Like for retroarch on the Steam Deck I set up a touch menu with short cuts to bring up the menu, select save states, rewind and fast forward.
And in my case I actually prefer to use the touchpads as primary inputs in FPS titles like The Finals. I set up the right touchpad so gyro is activated on touch, swiping to quickly turn, and setting up a dpad modeshift to act as a facebutton replacement by expanding the clicks from 1 to 5. So lets me not have to take my thumb off the right pad.
Not sure the ergonomics of the new Steam Controller will be good for dual pad gaming though, since didn’t find myself finding the Deck touchpads comfortable for that use case do to them being lower than the OG Steam Controller.
I play a ton of mouse driven games that don’t have gamepad support and it works great there. I would not even consider emulating the mouse with regular sticks, but with touchpad it’s very comfortable
Could not disagree more. Literally any game with mouse input is 1000x more playable
Opus Magnum, Dwarf Fortress, Noita, Rim World… so many games would be unplayable on Steam Deck without the track pads.
Aiming is way more precise. Not as good as motion aim + Joystick, but there is also no other controller that can dynamically activate motion aim depending on how you touch the Joystick.
It’s essential for navigating menus and windows. Both on a desktop or browser, as well as in any game that clearly has a layout for use with a mouse. I played GuilWars2 on my SteamDeck just fine, thanks to the trackpad (and abundance of modifier keys).
Absolutely essential in Strategy games, where you have to select one of multiple units, pick fields … I don’t get, how people can do this with a Joystick. I know, some of the games are available on console too and work completely with joystic, but it’s just so cumbersome and unintuitive, compared to the trackpad.
What I also used in Guildwars, is the radial menu from Steam, to bind hotkeys to nested menu entries, easy to navigate on the otherwise unused left trackpad. I basically went in and added something like that to most games I play on the Deck.
Any game which uses the mouse as it’s main use, Abu game which needs buttons and hotkeys, Abu game which uses analogue input. I don’t think you’ve learned how to use it properly, and that’s okay but something to work on.
I’ve gotten use out of it in minecraft as a numpad. Add 9 buttons, mapped to 1-9, and you can get to any item in your hotbar without shoulder button spam. It’s basically the only way I use it but most of my steam deck hours are in minecraft so it balances out.
personally I like them a lot for cursors, it takes some getting used to but ig I’ve used laptop track pads a lot and I find it very comfortable and natural to use my thumb for it. definitely haven’t used it much for e.g. camera control in a 3d game though, feels awkward every time I’ve tried.
I wouldn’t be able to play factorio without them. I also like to make touch menus for things
