• Tja@programming.dev
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    18 days ago

    Yes, yes they are.

    But that is a shit argument. I’m smarter than a dog, but I trust the dog guarding a property. Trust has nothing to do with intelligence.

    • Admetus@sopuli.xyz
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      18 days ago

      But can a dog organise your house, cook your food, educate your children and breastfeed your babies?

      • Kaligalis@lemmy.world
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        18 days ago

        Do you have a dog that provably can do all those things just fine and is really obedient?
        From their point of view, those fascists had dogs which had human abilities, had the intelligence of a human, and were even more obedient than the four-legged dogs.
        People absolutely will have their robomaid double as a nanny. And the robomaid will also help the kids do their homework while refusing to just give them the solutions.
        Humans in general really love to not have to do stuff themselves.

        • phx@lemmy.world
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          17 days ago

          A lot of those people (racist supremacist etc assholes) were also fucking “the help”, and even back then I’m pretty sure it wasn’t considered socially acceptable to fuck animals, nor would anyone ever expect progeny to happen from such. That kinda defeats the argument of non-whites being another species or non-human etc, so it’s more “they’re not human when it comes to rights but human enough for everything else”

          • Kaligalis@lemmy.world
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            16 days ago

            People fuck children. The US has a president who intimately knows a lot of people who literally fuck children.
            Fucking children is socially acceptable right now if you are part of the right circle.
            But there are also a lot of people who fuck children without knowing the US president or the (conveniently deceased) Jeffrey Epstein. They aren’t in that circle and for them, it’s not socially acceptable to fuck children. Yet they still do it.
            When the human sex drive is opposed by social norms, usually the sex drive wins one way or the other. Most people with forbidden fetishes are able to satisfy the drive without actually using the real thing. But there were always some for whom that didn’t work.

            I am pretty sure, slave owners were able to come up with some excuse for fucking their slaves after their horniness raised high enough over the years. And when post-nut clarity set in, they confessed to a priest and were forgiven by god - so it was all fine anyway.

    • Leon@pawb.social
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      18 days ago

      It is a post from 4chan so unfortunately that kind of language is to be expected. I’m hoping people here don’t use i, or wish to normalise it.

  • Zephyr@sh.itjust.works
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    18 days ago

    There are a few forms or levels of racism. There are people who really believe the narrative, some who question some of it, and others who are aware it’s bullshit but accept it because it benefits them or going against the narrative could be harmful for themselves. In short humans will craft whatever story they need to justify behavior they want without any concerns for logical consistency. You can see this behavior in racism now and of course many other aspects of society and human behavior. Humans are storytellers, more so than logical beings.

    Funny enough Benjamin Franklin has a short story on this. He as a vegetarian was lamenting his compatriots catching, killing, and cooking fish, listing all the reasons it’s immoral until he begins to smell the delicious fish and then starts writing about how maybe it’s not so bad, is fine, is even his god given right to eat the fish. The moral being humans can and will justify whatever they want to do. Also I’m aware of his own connection to slavery and inhumane practices.

      • Zephyr@sh.itjust.works
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        18 days ago

        It’s just generally beneficial to be aware. Besides that, if you are interacting with someone who is bigoted in some way it’s useful to determine which type they are. If they are just sold to the narrative then it’s easier to open up their mind. If they are aware it’s bullshit that just benefits them then it’s pretty difficult.

    • Forester@pawb.social
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      18 days ago

      If I remember correctly, mind you it’s been over two decades probably but the defining point at which he decides it’s okay to eat the fish is when he notices that the fish had been eating other fish when they fillayed it

      • Zephyr@sh.itjust.works
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        18 days ago

        Lol it’s probably been about as long for me since I read it. That sounds about right. It’s a good analogy though.

      • Zephyr@sh.itjust.works
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        18 days ago

        Those in power want to maintain power which is much easier if the people are divided, particularly on subjects not involving the people in power.

      • Well, fuck them. I don’t care how much money or power they have - there’s nothing they can do to stop me from being kind to strangers or giving to those in need. There’s not enough money in the universe to budge that.

        • TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today
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          18 days ago

          Yeah, but they can create the conditions where altruism is a non beneficial trait that ultimately leads to your untimely end. The goal isn’t for them to personally intervene in people’s lives, just to create the conditions that are most desirable to maintain their own position.

          That’s why they’ve spent decades attacking the kindness of the working class. Turning the idea of charity into an insult, Christianity into prosperity Gospel, and being neighborly into an immigrant sympathizer. They want the lower class to idolize the same kind of disregard for empathy that made them rich to begin with.

          • Yeah, but they can create the conditions where altruism is a non beneficial trait that ultimately leads to your untimely end.

            Then I will end, with the world in a better place than when I began.

            The goal isn’t for them to personally intervene in people’s lives, just to create the conditions that are most desirable to maintain their own position.

            And in doing so they render themselves utterly powerless to stop people like me from doing good.

            That’s why they’ve spent decades attacking the kindness of the working class. Turning the idea of charity into an insult, Christianity into prosperity Gospel, and being neighborly into an immigrant sympathizer. They want the lower class to idolize the same kind of disregard for empathy that made them rich to begin with.

            You’re dead on about that. However, I also think this creates prime conditions for people who never had any intention of being good people to say “gee now I can’t be a good person, how terrible!” Well fuck that, I’m gonna do it anyway and laugh at the ultrarich who think their money and influence can accomplish anything they wish.

              • Yeah, it’s hard as fuck to go on when so many things are coming from so many directions, at so many levels, telling me to just fuck off and die. Student financial aid cuts, DEI cuts, degree program cuts, new laws against trans people activities, higher costs of living across the board, daily news of violence and unrest either started or supported by my government… the list just goes on and on. But you know what? I woke up today, and I’m gonna make it their fucking problem until I don’t.

                • TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today
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                  18 days ago

                  Yep, all you can do is your best. Just keep one foot in front of the other and you’ll eventually end up old and tired, but hopefully content and with a mostly clear conscience.

                  Things have always been more fucked up than the general public likes to acknowledge, but I do admit that I really feel for younger people. I’m middle aged and have seen a lot in my time, but it does seem like the kids are going to have an even tougher go at it than I did, which is saying a lot. At least I got to see the analog world, before the towers fell and America cranked the crazy to 11, a time before the end of history.

        • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz
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          18 days ago

          Don’t fuck billionaires. There needs to be an embargo on sex for billionaires.

          Imagine how drastically the world could change if they need to give away enough of their wealth to put them below $1B net worth before they can get laid again!

          • Phantaloons@piefed.zip
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            17 days ago

            I often wonder if our broken and fucked up capitalistic world wouldn’t do a complete backflip into the dirt once all that wealth poured out into the hands of common folk.

            Like, it only “”“works”“” if the system itself is corrupt. The utilities, medicines and food the currency pays for are just as they are, there isn’t more because people have more money to buy it. Wouldn’t the result be everything inflating in price to insane heights?

            I’m not justifying billionares, hell no, just making sure all the people who want the dam to break know what to do with the water.

            • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz
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              17 days ago

              Wouldn’t the result be everything inflating in price to insane heights?

              I don’t think so. That’s a rationalization mainstream economists use for not fixing the system. They’ll say shit like “low unemployment rates are bad for the economy because if everyone has a job then they can all afford to spend money and that will cause inflation.” It’s complete bullshit based in a flawed idea of what makes an economy “healthy.”

              “Supply and Demand” is more dogma than science. We’ve seen time and again that it only holds true when the wealthy want it to hold true, when it benefits them. Otherwise they manipulate numbers and make them do whatever else they want to do.

              Would a total wealth redistribution cause some turbulence? Maybe at first, but not to the degree you fear. It would break through the corporate capture that allows them to keep prices artificially high

              More likely though, it will take a time of great turbulence and upheaval for that redistribution to occur; such as the coming bursting of the AI bubble compounded with the failure of the US dollar, the insolvency of the US government, and all the second- and third- order effects of that and bad governance…

      • AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world
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        18 days ago

        Have you ever seen the movie Se7en with Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman? I don’t know a single person who wouldn’t do what Brad Pitt did at the end of that movie. Not a single person. And I wouldn’t blame them either.

        Just the other day someone posted on here that their uncle died from covid after getting sucked into the alt-right pseudo-medicine rabbit hole. And the comments were all just vile shit like “I’m glad your dumbass uncle died” and “1 down only like 20 million to go”, “good riddance he deserved it” etc. And when I point out shit talking this guy for losing someone he loved is fucked up I get downvoted lol. We can’t even come together online, let alone in person.

        Whoever is running things know that we simply cannot get along, we cannot forgive each other, we cannot unite. It’s their greatest tool honestly. Could you forgive maga?

        • PapaStevesy@lemmy.world
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          17 days ago

          I don’t think I’d do what Brad Pitt did at the end of that movie, one-shot kill is far too kind and reasonable for the state of mind I’d be in.

        • Gigasser@lemmy.world
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          16 days ago

          I wouldn’t forgive, but you could always give the veneer of forgiveness in order to get them on your side. It sounds machiavellian, but sometimes using cult tactics like love bombing against people who are susceptible to such tactics, as magats have shown to be susceptible to, is necessary for a better world. You don’t have to forgive them in your heart.

        • Phantaloons@piefed.zip
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          17 days ago

          Hmmm…

          people and children in cages

          the bombing of civilians

          poisioning of natural ecosystems

          abject torture and abuse of the innocent

          nope. I’d think about it for a bit, though.

  • DagwoodIII@piefed.social
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    18 days ago

    Read “The Autobiography of Malcolm X”

    Plenty of Black people were ready to accept the situation.

    Calling someone ‘African’ used to be a huge insult.

  • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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    18 days ago

    We all buy things from Capitalist companies? Are we stupid?

    We ignore incongruent views and opinions in order to get what we want. Not retarded, more opportunistic, and selectively ignorant.

    I eat meat, it’s killing the planet. Now and then I’ll get ChatGPT to summarize something. It’s killing the planet. I buy some 3M products, and drive a petrol based vehicle…

    • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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      18 days ago

      We all buy things from Capitalist companies? Are we stupid?

      We have no choice. Pretty sure keeping slaves was a choice.

      eat meat, it’s killing the planet

      Yes, that’s stupid. You’re stupid. You have options.

      • Khanzarate@lemmy.world
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        18 days ago

        I mean, financially it wasn’t really a choice. Cotton wasn’t profitable without slavery. Inherit a cotton farm from your racist parents and capitalism would ensure the racism kept flowing.

        That’s why we had to force the issue in the first place, the south needed the institution of slavery, and wasn’t just fighting to defend slavery because they thought it was neat, it was because they needed it.

        No excuses, but when immoral behavior is profitable behavior, yes, people can get dependent.

        • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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          18 days ago

          financially it wasn’t really a choice.

          I’m really sorry sir, but to maintain my lifestyle I need you to be a slave.

    • sbv@sh.itjust.works
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      18 days ago

      It’s sad that you’re getting downvotes.

      People want to fit into their society and enjoy the comforts available to their peers. As you say, that’s as true of slavers as it is of the rest of us who: drive (but care about our kids), eat animal products (but care about animal welfare), etc.

      We need to realize that shit-ass societies that committed atrocities were full of people just like us. If we were in a similar situation, very few of us would have done better.

  • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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    17 days ago

    Why should I be bigoted over skin color when I can be bigoted over culture and religion. After all I have met good folks of many ethnic and racial groups, I have yet to meet a Utah Mormon whomst I didn’t want to feed to the Joshua Trees.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      17 days ago

      I can be bigoted over culture and religion

      I have yet to meet a Utah Mormon whomst I didn’t want to feed to the Joshua Trees.

      I’m always thrown back to the Southpark guys when I think about lay Mormons. The whole “All About Mormons” episode (nevermind the Book of Mormon stage play) absolutely eviscerates the philosophy. But their attitude to actual religious practitioners is inevitably that they’re just nice, simple-minded people. And going after any individual Mormon for their faith is a bit like going up to Santa Claus exhibit at the mall and screaming “Fake! Fake! It’s all bullshit consumerism! Your parents are buying the presents!”

      There’s definitely shit people who are Mormon (Mitt Romney being the ur-example). But then there’s shit people in every religious and philosophical niche. My cousin is married to a practicing Mormon and he’s an absolute marshmallow sweetheart. All smiles, great with kids, quick to help anyway he can. Soft spoken, non-judgemental, a shameless teatoddler who is always happy to be the designated driver. You can raz him for being a bit bland and he’ll laugh at your jokes, then maybe tease you about having had one too many coffees.

      It’s the people who are easy to bully and scare and intimidate that can make for a very dangerous “Silent Majority”, because they’ll just kinda go along to get along. But they’re also fundamental to a peaceful, productive, and happy society when benevolent and visionary leaders are at the helm. If your society is all contrarian, belligerent, hard-drinking, fist-clenching, radical revolutionary/reactionary agitprop breathing soldiers of fortune, what you get is just endless fighting and misery and slaughter.

      • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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        17 days ago

        Ya do realize I have more reason to hate Utah Mormons than just they’re different right? I specifically focus on the Utahn culture and religious practices of Mormons because I see them as an active threat to basically every western state. If I could get away with just purging BYU, LDS HQ, and the Utahn government I’d be more than happy to settle for that, I just severely doubt that would end my complaints.

        If it makes it any more understandable I am far less forgiving towards Evangelical mega churches, which all I can think is that there are only viable targets for such groups.

        • LwL@lemmy.world
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          16 days ago

          A lot of the individuals aren’t in there entirely of their own will though. Particularly with BYU, the institution itself is a cancer, but the individual students are really not at fault (at least certainly not all of them). The university portrays itself very differently than it actually is, and you effectively cannot leave the mormon church while you attend (unless you want to get kicked out and have all your time there completely wasted).

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          17 days ago

          I have more reason to hate Utah Mormons than just they’re different right?

          A rationalization, certainly.

          If I could get away with just purging BYU, LDS HQ, and the Utahn government I’d be more than happy to settle for that

          Downright Israeli of you.

          I am far less forgiving towards Evangelical mega churches

          It just sounds like you’re on the warpath.

          • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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            16 days ago

            Yeah I have a rational and structure to whom I hate, that’s called a philosophy. Sure mine may be rather notable in modernity for its archaicism and weird reference points, but I don’t particularly care since if my ideology was followed fascists wouldn’t be threatening the American project so thoroughly. Live and let live only works when the other person also respects the truce.

            If the Israelis only targeted directly hostile entities and didn’t intentionally go out of their way to create new ones they wouldn’t be of note. But they can’t they’re too obsessed with so called Lebensraum, how I hope to see their cities sacked and a new diaspora created.

            I wish I was on a warpath, but I am not at liberty to take such actions sadly. Too many folks don’t have enough hate in their hearts towards the preacher, the politician, and the businessman. There ain’t a thing that you or anyone else could say to me to assuage my want to burn and salt the earth.

  • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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    16 days ago

    Yes. Yes, racists are retarded. There is no logical reason to harbour discrimination towards any ethnic group or rage of Humans. Therefore, those who do aren’t logical or rational individuals.

  • deepvertic@lemmy.world
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    17 days ago

    I don’t disagree with the sentiment, however this is a strawman argument. I don’t see intelligence inversely correlated with racism either.

    • daannii@lemmy.world
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      16 days ago

      It’s a product of lazy thinking.

      Instead of evaluating people on an individual basis it’s categorizing them based on some physical trait. That has nothing to do with their behavior or personality.

      This is why bigotry is the game of the lazy thinkers.

      Lazy thinkers are not intelligent because to foster intelligence one must delve into things. Consider things. Contemplate how things work.

      Not just accept crude rules because it’s easy.

      This trait is called. Need for cognition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need_for_cognition

      It’s highly correlated with intelligence.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      17 days ago

      I don’t see intelligence inversely correlated with racism either.

      Increasingly byzantine rationalizations for why you’re an asshole used to be the centerpiece of conservative intellectualism. You could get a PhD in racism if you worked hard enough. The SCOTUS and the appellate courts are packed with people who can tie an argument in knots to justify some new level of human misery. The Pentagon and its contracting affiliates are stuffed with top tier engineers and logistical savants and IT professionals fully inducted into the white supremacist worldview.

      Some of the most impressive feats of social engineering have occurred in order to perpetuate social anxiety between ethnic groups.

    • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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      17 days ago

      I don’t see intelligence inversely correlated with racism either.

      I do. Racism is in direct conflict with Empathy and Empathy can be biologically explained by Mirror Neurons, which influences how learning works. At least the Learning by Example type of education.

        • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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          16 days ago

          I think I explained what I thought well enough. Both Empathy and “Learning by Example” are tied to Mirror Neurons. In short, assholes tend to be very dumb. At least in my experience.

    • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
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      17 days ago

      It’s obviously not a strict one-to-one relationship but I do think more intelligent people are on average slightly less racist.

      • Donkter@lemmy.world
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        17 days ago

        I think the issue is we don’t really have a measurement for intelligence. Qualitatively, I think you are more intelligent if you have the reasoning capabilities to logic yourself out of reactionary feelings like racism, but it’s really hard to measure that.

      • deepvertic@lemmy.world
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        17 days ago

        I don’t think such moral questions are at all influenced by intelligence, personally. Is there any data on this? I imagine it must be very hard since biological differences exists and it all kinda boils down to value judgments, which cannot be derived directly from scientific research alone. I realize while arguing this that is is an extremely sensitive and hairy subject to even argue around. I appreciate you entertaining this 😄😄

        • Morality is influenced by ‘intelligence’ in like every way. Your ability to contrive bullshit and keep buying that bullshit, your willingness to terminate thoughts, your curiosity, and your ability to see why things matter and do shit like extend the scale of the self or take differing perspectives are all directly functions of various cognitive and psychological factors often called ‘intelligence’. Broadly intelligent people who are also pieces of shit are rare. Deeply stupid people who are broadly moral are rare. Even the ways people suck change as they acquire more ‘intelligence’.

          Please cut the anti intellectual bullshit.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            17 days ago

            Your ability to contrive bullshit and keep buying that bullshit, your willingness to terminate thoughts, your curiosity, and your ability to see why things matter and do shit like extend the scale of the self or take differing perspectives are all directly functions of various cognitive and psychological factors often called ‘intelligence’.

            But all of that can still end in a racist worldview, depending on what directions you take your train of thought and what conclusions you find most plausible. That’s the old “FBI Crime Statistics” and “Social Darwinism” / “Bell Curve” gambit. And it works on a large number of proven intellectuals. FFS, James Watson - one of the pioneers of modern genetics - is a frothing racist. Wikipedia co-founder Larry Sanger is a Christian Nationalist. Being “smart” isn’t a panacea for being gullible.

            At some point, “intelligent” people are more vulnerable to misinformation than their “dumb” peers, because they have more experience absorbing and applying advanced theories and philosophies without fully grasping how they work. The more advanced you get in any scientific field, the more you’re forced to accept on faith because you recognize you simply don’t have the time or the energy to delve down every academic rabbit hole. The end result is a certain scholastic dogma that people cling to because they simply accept prior generations have done the leg-work.

            Present information in the pastiche of academia and you can reliably delude academics and scholars up front. Argue convincingly with the right jargon, present walls of data with citations and graphics, and follow the superficial mannerisms of trustworthy peers. You’ll catch lots of people who have trained themselves to correlate the structure of the presentation as inherently trustworthy.

            By contrast, folks who aren’t familiar or experienced with a certain scholarly formulation won’t be fooled simply because they don’t know how to absorb the information or recognize the display as a trustworthy format.

              • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                17 days ago

                Outliers disprove the trend, its true.

                They define it’s limits and illustrate it’s flaws.

                But what I see most commonly referred to as “intelligence” tends to be phrased as “common wisdom”. You cannot simultaneously be “smart” and “wrong”. Therefore, placidly regurgitating the correct answers somehow signify more intelligence than painstakingly carving out another view.

                I’m glad I used absolute terms with no nuance

                Well, that’s sort of the joke, isn’t it?

          • deepvertic@lemmy.world
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            17 days ago

            No need to be hostile. I don’t hear any direct counter arguments here other than you don’t agree with my claim. I am simply basing my opinion on the fact that I have not seen any evidence of there being a documented correlation, and also because history is full of very intelligent people being very racist and pro slavery.