Is it simply over-correcting in response to western anti-communist propaganda? I’d like to think it’s simply memeing for memes sake, but it feels too genuine.
Its wild reading this shit online every day when the real.life communists I meat in mutual aid get along wonderfully with me. Its time guys, the Soviet Union has fallen, Capitalism has emerged from its Cocoon once again showing its true colors of fascism. Anarchists and Communists need each other now more than ever. Make those alliances, I’d much rather deal with each other in the aftermath than be put to the boot in Amazon City.
Historically, “dealing with each other in the aftermath” means anarchists being betrayed and murdered by communists
Well theres no secret 3rd way here. We do not have the numbers to topple the government ourselves.
Yeah, but toppling one government only to be forced to immediately topple the resulting government just leaves you back at square one and being murdered by MLs really isn’t super appealing either.
Westerners always go straight to the murder. Like theres no way you could setup a coalition government or anything else really. Its all or nothing, them or us. Fucken batshit insane.
I would say that’s a feature of Marxist-Leninism rather than Westerners.
Because they have to latch onto “great men”, it helps with their simplistic cult minded tendencies to defer to authority.
Have you read Parenti? You could label him a Stalinist with his views, and that’s the general line who you consider Stalinist to be has, how would his views ever be considered as latching onto great men?
Simply put, they have no idea what they’re talking about.
Stalin took credit for defeating Nazis (after carving up Poland with them first, but who cares about minor historical details) and was leading this big global superpower that could stand up the The Evil West (while also crushing every other leftist organization that didn’t bend the knee, but again, minor details).
And from there it’s a pretty simple leap to the world being divided into the Good Camp and the Bad Camp. The US is clearly in the Bad Camp (which is the part I don’t argue). The USSR was against the US. Therefore it must be the Good Camp. The idea of multiple evil people opposing each other is a bit too complicated for them.
as an anarchist who has organised with meatspace MLs, the topic of Stalin never comes up on its own. it comes up online more often because we’re not doing anything more important than just talking.
Stalin comes up in meatspace when some liberal confronts an ML and demands to know if they’re ‘Stalinist’ and what they think of the ‘Holomdor’. then the ML explains how ‘Stalinism’ isn’t a thing, they primarily read Marx, Engels and Lenin, and how Stalin was the leader of a team not a dictator and even the CIA’s own profile on him says exactly that, and then explain the ongoing threats the Soviet security state was protecting against and the cultural and economic trauma of losing 15% of their population in World War II, and the climatological history of the Southern regions and how the famine impacted more than just Ukraine and how famines were common in the region, and how the Ukrainian kulaks, protesting that their lands were being given to the serfs, burned crops and equipment and salted the land, and how famines were ended in the region under the USSR, and then ask the liberal if they care about famines under capitalism.
then the liberal says ‘yeah but Stalin was basically Hitler’ and then we in this group of anarchists, ML(M)s and syndicalists chase this fucking wrecker out into the street so we can get back to work.
i think any strong opinion on Stalin as an individual is already wrong, because you’re falling for the Great Man of History fallacy. i think Stalin is irrelevant unless you’re an ML cadre who needs to learn from the successes and mistakes of the USSR, but i think the history of the USSR is also important to any communist.
when you see an ML defending Stalin, it’s almost always because someone is criticising MLs based on an uninformed claim about Stalin, or they’re criticising Stalin from an uninformed position. and i don’t blame them: i’m all for criticising mistakes, but we don’t need to make shit up to do that.
i get that as anarchists we’re suspicious of statist leaders, but i don’t get why it’s so hard to understand that statists would defend a communist state. even if you see them enemies, you would benefit from reading their theory to understand their position rather than going ‘uhhh, why do statists defend states so much? must be they can’t read, or they’re just stu~pid lol must be because they have daddy issues lol’
“No the Katyn Massacre was good actually because…”
Listen, foolish one, historically these Stalin worshippers will use you to install their vanguard party and immediately turn around and kill you for anarchist dissent. Learn from past mistakes and stop trusting autocratic morons. Even when they say “no bro totally trust me bro solidarity bro” it is nothing but a lie. Have fun with Красный Террор два: Электрический бугалу!
“No the Katyn Massacre was good actually because…”
no one says this
The closest I have seen is ‘Are we to believe SS death squads that they found the evidence for it in 1943?’
So, not a good thing, and possibly just more Nazi shit, further not good.


“Why is this group so stupid and wrong? No specifics, project your own opinions of stupid and wrong people here.”
When people talk about “Stalinism,” they usually mean one of 2 things:
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Marxism-Leninism, the synthesis of Marxism with the advancements made by Lenin. Stalin synthesized Marxism-Leninism, so this gets called “Stalinism” despite Stalin’s minor contributions compared to Marx and Lenin.
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The policies of the USSR while Stalin was General Secretary of the CPSU.
The former, Marxism-Leninism, is the largest tendency of Marxism by far. This is because it has proven its utility in practice, establishing socialism in many countries with varying local conditions and contexts. Lenin’s contributions to Marxism are near universally accepted by Marxists, and Stalin did not change from them in synthesizing Marxism-Leninism.
The latter, Stalin’s policy positions, are largely either contextualized and explained, rather than actively defended, or are genuinely good feats. For example, under Stalin, literacy rates skyrocketed from ~30% to 99.9%, life expectancy doubled, education and healthcare were made free at all levels, jobs were guaranteed, and much more. Genuine faults, like criminalizing homosexuality, are recognized as such by Marxist-Leninists.
As Weng Weiguang says, The Evaluation of Stalin is Essentially an Ideological Struggle. Marxist-Leninists don’t idolize Stalin. At the same time, Stalin synthesized Marxism-Leninism, and oversaw the world’s first socialist state during its most turbulent period. The CPC rates him as 70% good, 30% bad, and this rating is roughly orbited by most communist orgs. Those who denounce Stalin entirely, also denounce the USSR, and existing socialism.
Stalin was a committed Marxist-Leninist, and oversaw the world’s first socialist state for the overwhelming majority of its most tumultuous period. He was no saint, but at the same time was no monster either. He is remembered by liberal historians as far worse than comtemporaries like Churchill who in actuality were far worse than Stalin.
As Nia Frome says, we can either distance ourselves from Stalin, and by extension the USSR and actually existing socialism, or we can fight back against bourgeois narratives about Stalin and the USSR, acknowledging their faults while being able to uphold their tremendous successes as examples of the possibilities of socialism in power. Historical nihilism, and throwing Stalin and by extension much of the early soviet union under the bus, was ultimately what allowed for liberalization within the USSR and partially contributed to the death of socialism in eastern Europe.
If you want an intro to Marxism-Leninism, check out my new basic ML study guide!
Where are you from? Country of origin? I’m genuinely curious.
Statesian.
Mhm. I get that your country is hostile to the world and its own citizens. I do. But that doesn’t make Stalin - or any era USSR - good. This dichotomy of white vs black, good vs evil is the most USian brainwashing that is afflicted on your people. From your post I can see you preemptively dismiss any critisizm or argument and while you said MLs don’t idealise Stalin, it seems that you do.
Those who denounce Stalin entirely, also denounce the USSR, and existing socialism.
I’m from Poland. To us, to a country betrayed by the Allies and sold to Stalin, their occupation did not bring prosperity, or equality, nor socialism. We were systematically robbed by the USSR from the wealth, intellect and industry (as noted by then governments and listed as a plea for USSR to stop), and even lives. We were made to take loans to invest in the Empire, while staying a satelite country and tying our planned economy to better native Russian territories. We did call then the Red Army - Red Locust. You need to realise that when you glorify it, you automatically dismiss our traumatic past. It is like getting told by a stupid child that if we’re hungry we should eat cake.
Since USA wages war outside its territory and was never invaded nor conquered, you might not know that trauma - especially from war and being a conquered nation, worse nation - is transgenerational https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_trauma
Were there people who thrived under USSR occupation? Yes, but they are thriving currently too, both politicians and capitalist leeches. Did Poland progress under the occupation? Yes, like every damn other country in Europe. We would progress more as free people, no historian thinks differently.
The latter, Stalin’s policy positions, are largely either contextualized and explained, rather than actively defended, or are genuinely good feats
When I read your comments I can’t not see you as anything else than a guilt feeling nepo baby. Or at least someone so privileged, that they never ever thought about other people lives outside of statistics. An empty headed academic.
Tl; dr; the revolution was made into abomination of itself and claiming otherwise is blindness
Mhm. I get that your country is hostile to the world and its own citizens. I do. But that doesn’t make Stalin - or any era USSR - good.
The USSR was good based on its own progressive merits.
From your post I can see you preemptively dismiss any critisizm or argument and while you said MLs don’t idealise Stalin, it seems that you do.
I don’t.
I’m from Poland. To us, to a country betrayed by the Allies and sold to Stalin, their occupation did not bring prosperity, or equality, nor socialism.
I’ve spoken to people from Poland that have the opposite to say. The fall of socialism in Poland brought a dramatic collapse in any kind of left, which is why Poland is so far-right today.
We were systematically robbed by the USSR from the wealth, intellect and industry (as noted by then governments and listed as a plea for USSR to stop), we were made take loans to invest in the Empire, while staying a satelite country. We did call then the Red Army - Red Locust. You need to realise that when you glorify it, you automatically dismiss our traumatic past. It is like getting told by a stupid child that if we’re hungry we should eat cake.
Again, I’ve heard much the opposite. That’s why anecdotes are terrible measures of truth. The collapse of socialism in Eastern Europe brought skyrocketing poverty rates, prostitutuon, drug abuse, homelessness, and 7 million excess deaths.
Since USA wages war outside its territory and was never invaded, you might not know that trauma - especially from war and being a conquered nation - is transgenerational https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_trauma
I’m aware.
Were they people who thrived under USSR occupation? Yes, but they are thriving currently too, both politicians and capitalist leeches. Did Poland progress under the occupation? Yes, like every damn other country in Europe. We would progress more as free people, no historian thinks differently.
And yet Poland is now in a far-right spiral with far greater disparity.
When I read your comments I can’t not see you as anything else than a guilt feeling nepo baby. Or at least someone so privileged, that they never ever thought about other people lives outside of statistics. An empty headed academic.
Cool story, you know nothing about me. Believe it or not, statistics and historical fact do outweigh simple anecdote, and the idea that I have never thought about people’s lives outside of statistics is deeply wrong.
What anecdote? I’ve made no anecdotes? The only person mentioning any anecdotes is you, e.g.
Again, I’ve heard much the opposite
Regarding USSR stealing industry:
(I’m sorry wo don’t really translate that to English). But you can try to Google for sources in English.
I’ve spoken to people from Poland that have the opposite to say
You might’ve spoken to people who remember the late 80’s fondly. Not 50-70s. Or ZOMO (secret terror police) or similar, they always had privileged lives.
Unless you were in the Party, Army or Zomo, life was not roses at all, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_October
The collapse of socialism in Eastern Europe brought skyrocketing poverty rates, prostitutuon, drug abuse, homelessness, and 7 million excess deaths.
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Poland is not Eastern Europe
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prostitutuon, drug abuse, homelessness <- you might be confusing that with what is common in the USA.
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skyrocketing poverty rates
Not really, no? After we detached from the ZSSR everything had to be restarted and the first decade was hard. We had to start from little, figure out export routes, rebuild a damn lot of industries etc? We were economy attached and made dependant on USSR, how could the split not be hard?
Poland, prior to socialism, was 2/3rds controlled by foreign capital, and was severely lagging behind the rest of Europe industrially. By 1948, Poland’s industrial output was 153% of what it had been in 1938. Post-war, the economy grew over 300% from 1945 to 1948.
In the 1930s, Polish life expectancy was ~46 years old. After the introduction of socialism, and improved healthcare, it reached 70. Before socialism, literacy rates were ~80% in urban areas and ~30% in rural areas. With socialism, total literacy rates were 98%. With socialism came legalized abortion and greatly expanded women’s rights.
The dissolution of socialism, as I said, brought ~7 million deaths around the world. You didn’t dispute that, the argument seems to be on your end that these were necessary for economic growth. What Poland could have done is remain socialist.
Everything else tomorrow, its 1am
The dissolution of socialism, as I said, brought ~7 million deaths. You didn’t dispute that, th
I literally added a link it was 8400. You gave no sources. Trust me bro is not a source.
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Splitting this to a separate comment because it was too long:
The fall of socialism in Poland brought a dramatic collapse in any kind of left, which is why Poland is so far-right today.
I mean dude, not even close. Polish leftist parties were antiworker from the 90s. Anything further left was dismissed as “USSR was saying the same lies”. Fool me once kind of thing.
Add to that the short time where there was upwards mobility in the country when it first became “capitalists”, as well as fhe fact that in the past 20 years median personal real wealth grew.
And yet Poland is now in a far-right spiral with far greater disparity
Yup. The current generation is seeing that the wealth is unequally distributed (1% owns 45% of wealth), as well as all those rentier leeches, banks making record profits year after year, and the Facebook/Tiktok ( or generally USA right wing) propaganda is turning like 10% into MAGA-style idiots, and the rest is also slowly radicalizing. We do see that in the below 35 age group the left-leaning is still strongest, but the PIS and Konfederacja are following Repulican party strategies and gaining tracktion.
So in other words, the far-right used the standard red-scare playbook to purge communists and socialists, and now Poland has immense disparity and is entirely controlled by the far-right.
No, don’t hyperbolize. This isn’t your narrative.
the far-right used the standard red-scare playbook to purge communists and socialists
No. It was everyone in the free Poland. We were rebelling constantly under USSR occupation.
and now Poland has immense disparity and is
No. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=PL&start=1985 But we do see foreign corporations leeching from us and actively enshittifying. The home ownership rate is decreasing.
and is entirely controlled by the far-right.
That depends what you mean by far right. I’d call the current political landscape of Poland as right-centrist PO in coalition with centrists (the rest of the coalition) vs (oppositon) right-centrist PiS with (growing) republican-clone Konfederacja
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