• jordanlund@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Imma pin this one up for now.

    Please remember the rule on celebrating death. Graham was an asshole, that should be enough.

    In March 2016, Graham said: “I want you to use my words against me. If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said let’s let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination.” [1, 2]

    • athatet@lemmy.zip
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      2 months ago

      IDK. The rules can say whatever they want. When a person who wants me and my friends dead, dies, I’m going to be happy about it.

    • WizardOfFrobozz@lemmy.ca
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      2 months ago

      What, pray tell, is the “rule” about celebrating death? It couldn’t possibly be some absolute Reddit shit, could it?

      • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Sidebar rule 6:

        “No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning.”

          • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            I know, people hate it when you point out the rules they agree to by participating here even though they are clearly posted and they never read them. 😉

        • mechoman444@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          The issue is that what is presented as a single rule is actually several different rules crammed into one sentence. It strings together multiple distinct ideas with commas, making it unclear where one prohibition ends and another begins. If each of those ideas is meant to stand on its own, they should be written as separate rules rather than bundled together under a single heading.

          Secondly, “celebrating death” is an extremely vague concept. Many cultures celebrate death in one form or another. Hindus, for example, have traditions that celebrate the passage into the next life. Creole culture also has a long history of turning funerals into communal celebrations.

          Moreover, what exactly constitutes a celebration of death? If someone feels happy that a particular person has died, they are not necessarily celebrating death itself. They are simply acknowledging that someone they disliked is gone and, in their view, that the world is objectively better off as a result.

          So if I say, “I am happy that so-and-so died,” that is not, in and of itself, a morally reprehensible statement. It merely expresses an individual’s emotions. No one is obligated to like another person or to feel sadness when they die. Death itself is not a moral act; the act of taking a life is. In this case, the individual died naturally rather than as the result of anyone’s actions.

          As a result, I see no compelling reason why death itself should never be celebrated, whether the sentiment is meant to admonish the deceased or to honor them.

          • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            “or” makes it clear to anyone with an understanding of English that these are each separate items.

            • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              One of the great many problems with the"celebrating death" rule (whatever that means) is that much commentary is generated just talking about why it it pointless. The moderators must have already removed the most violent opinions because most of the ones remaining are along the lines of “good, I’m glad”. Pretty tame stuff, but apparently not permitted all the same.

              If it is a rule, at least you have the good sense to realise that “celebration” is a pretty broad term and should be handled judicially.

            • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Not positive that you should be enforcing your own personal ethics onto other people. Free speech should be a thing. If a person did bad things and people are glad that he is no longer in a position to do bad things, that is a celebration in itself. Trying to enforce opinions like this is self-congratulatory in that you consider your opinion is superior and worthy of judicial enforcement.

              Note that I haven’t in the slightest commented on the man himself, yet still run the risk of banning. It all depends upon the moderator. This happens on Reddit all the time and that’s the problem with this kind of moderation. It has a chilling effect. Give a censor a job and they tend to censor.

              • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Freedom of speech is what the government controls. You have no freedom of speech within a private entity like social media.

                The TOS sets the overall rules, each community further defines them.

                The Lemmy instances which are “do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law” get de-federated pretty damn quickly due to the raw sewage they pump out.

                • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  I do agree that censorship and freedom of speech are related to how a government deals with the matter, so you are right.

                  However, free speech principles have, thankfully, escaped the confines of government control. People generally like to express an opinion and hear others - particularly on private platforms that are supposedly set up for that express purpose. Sure, set of terms of service putting arbitrary guard rails on ethical grounds (one’s own) and see what that gets you in the long run.

                  Most of us already know the extremities of free speech. Saying ‘great’ when a douchebag stops being a douchebag is hardly ban worthy.

                  Or maybe it is, and if so, welcome to your weather channel.

                • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Freedom of speech is what the government controls. You have no freedom of speech within a private entity like social media.

                  Totally true. But the reality is people are going to go to whatever platform they feel most free to express themselves on.

                  That’s literally why everyone left Reddit for Lemmy. And they’ll leave Lemmy too.

                  Just making an observation.

                • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  True, I should probably quit social media altogether. Having opinions is never welcome unless they are authorised opinions.

            • WizardOfFrobozz@lemmy.ca
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              2 months ago

              Jesus fucking Christ. We’re really doing this high road virtue signaling bullshit here, too? Cool. Continue being part of the problem, I guess.

                • WizardOfFrobozz@lemmy.ca
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                  2 months ago

                  Is there a rule about talking about disliking it? I don’t see one in writing, but it seems like it wouldn’t matter.

            • bthest@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Ok agreed. No raping people and murdering people like Graham Cracker.

              Now on the celebration.

            • Stupidmanager@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              No. This high road bullshit is why we are in the hole we’re in now. You want to play the game, you need to understand the rules. And you naive to think anything else.

              I won’t condone murder, but this fucker deserves his abrupt death and the vitriol that follows. We will always be at the mercy of those fucks because of people like you and it’s time you understand.

            • D_C@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              Ahhhh, the “when they go low, we go high” approach.
              Gee whizz, that approach has really been working out so far, hasn’t it…

            • Leo Dal Pozzo@infosec.pub
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              2 months ago

              So if we celebrated hitler’s death we lack humanity? People should be free to celebrate a death if they feel to. Forcing your idea of a moral code over people is not nice. We are not talking about celebrating violence, a crime or wishing for somebody’s death.

              People should be feel to express their feelings if they don’t hurt anyone, without having to fear the morality police. The point of modorators should be to create a welcoming and safe space, not to impose your morality on others.

                • Leo Dal Pozzo@infosec.pub
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                  2 months ago

                  Yes, and you could have answered “thanks for your input, but we are going to stick with our rules because we have our reasons”, instead you basically tell me “Doesn’t matter what you think, these are the rules and you must respect them. No discussion allowed”. I mean sure, you make the rules, but the way you enforce them and react to criticism speaks for itself.

              • WizardOfFrobozz@lemmy.ca
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                2 months ago

                No, no, you don’t get it. It’s not about being nice, it’s about telegraphing what a good, nonthreatening supplicant you are

                • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  I already said he was an asshole and cited the reason, that’s not supplication.

                  You don’t have to celebrate death to prove you aren’t a supplicant. 😉

          • edible_funk@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            Community rules are aggressively enforced against people the mods disagree with and fairly lax with those they agree. Jordan is usually pretty fair though. But yeah the celebrating death rule is applied very very inconsistently.

            • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Mostly because we physically can’t read every comment and rely on reports.

              Events like this are fairly unique.

              So here’s the situation:

              Last night? I didn’t see anything removable or bannable and went to sleep.

              Waking up today, I had a butt-ton of replies to wade through, then reports, now I’m going through the whole comment tree looking for rule violations.

              So far, as of your comment, it looks pretty clean! I’m impressed!

          • stickyprimer@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            I know no one wants to hear this right now but celebrating death degrades us. To join the grim reaper’s cheering section is to sit with the ghouls.

            If you want to convince me there’s some great practical value in it, go ahead and try, but I don’t see it. To me, it’s an act that accomplishes nothing except lowering us. And believe me, I fucking hated Lindsay Graham. I’m glad he will do no more harm, but that’s as far as I prefer to go.

              • stickyprimer@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                No, obnoxious is the way y’all are piling your hatred for Lindsay Graham onto this poor mod because he won’t let you rip Graham’s body to pieces inside the community center. As if that would do anyone any good. Straight up fucking scapegoating going on right here. He’s handled you all quite well.

        • mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca
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          2 months ago

          lmfao wow this is some real reddit shit. mass downvoting the guy who answered the question

          edit: oh wait it’s the same guy, it makes sense then. still, shouldn’t downvote the answer.

        • psycho_driver@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Maybe amend the rule to “celebrating death of actual human beings”. There’s one person whose death will be celebrated far and wide, for sure.

            • Axolotl@feddit.it
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              2 months ago

              So it’s a highly inconsistent rule that also get lifted when someone the mods hate dies? Holy shit

              • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Wasn’t just “the mods hate”. Kissinger was legit a war criminal.

                As much as we all hate Graham, he was not at the same level as Kissinger. Few are.

                • psycho_driver@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Graham may get a footnote in future history books in the chapter on the fall of democracy in the western hemisphere.

                • Axolotl@feddit.it
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                  2 months ago

                  Graham caused some fatalities too, not at the level of a war criminal ofc, but still, he did some pretty bad damage so what i see is just an excuse to celebrate the death of someone you dislike;
                  If everyone is human Graham included then Kissinger is too, yet you celebrated Kissinger death, which mean you deem one less human than the other which just look hypocrisy to me, this whole rule is bullshit but it’s even more bullshit how you all enforce it and remove it as you like for certain people

                  You either enforce it for all or for no one, which IMO the better one is the 2nd option because the rule is just blatantly enforcing your own moral.

            • OldChicoAle@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              So you decide when it applies and when it doesn’t? Sounds like this community needs a new mod with some integrity

              • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                We made an exception for an incredible war criminal, yes. Don’t expect us to do it for everyone.

                • OldChicoAle@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Just expect it for the people YOU don’t like? Policies made by these evil men can lead to death. If you make life harder for pregnant people, women, LGBTQ, etc., some of those people will commit suicide. Some of those people will die in child birth. Some of those people will see hate crimes committed against them. That doesn’t make them evil enough for you? Someone dying doesn’t erase the evil they have committed. Even those politicians that didn’t want to protect grandma during covid are pretty fucking despicable. They could have created policy that led to innocent elderly dying from a preventable condition. I would celebrate the death of all politicians that didnt do enough to protect public health. Jesus Christ, why do I need to explain this? They are literally public figures. They put themselves out there for us to judge.

          • MinnesotaGoddam@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            i mean while i agree, i don’t want to get into the habit of dehumanizing people (even if it feels fair play for any given specific person).

            • Leg@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              Agreed. The worst people in history were all still very much human. They had internal complexity that caused them to live the lives they lived and make the mistakes they did. And those humans were terrible people whose deaths deserve celebration, because they’re shining examples of which parts of humanity we should strive to avoid emulating.

      • Tyrq@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 months ago

        There should probably be a mechanic for users to boot overbearing mods, they are our communities, not for bootlicking fascists to play god because they “enforce the rules”

        • WizardOfFrobozz@lemmy.ca
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          2 months ago

          What do you think the Internet is?Humanity’s great, open exchange of information, where ideas can be shared with minimal gatekeeping, allowing knowledge, perspectives, and voices to circulate freely across borders and institutions?

          Pfft. Grow up, dude. It’s whatever the advertisers, billionaire shitheads, and power tripping moderators decide it should be, obviously.

    • FenrirIII@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I know you’re getting shit from everyone, but thanks for volunteering to mod and put up with all the “edgy” people here.

        • 7101334@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          An emphasis on being nonconfrontational and an emphasis on maintaining decorum are two of the main expressions of white supremacist mindsets from liberals.

          • Ferrous@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            Pretty brutal list of catastrophies you listed there. It’s a shame that your party decided it was more important to genocide Palestinians than it was to mitigate those issues.

    • BillCheddar@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      What a weird rule.

      Hitler dies, and we’re not allowed to celebrate? Putin dies, we can’t talk about how great it is that the warmongering fascist is no longer haunting the rest of us with war?

      C’mon.

      • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        You can say what a terrible person he was without celebrating his death.

        Just like the Charlie Kirk responses:

        “I can’t stand the word empathy actually. I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term that — it does a lot of damage, but it is very effective when it comes to politics.”

        • 7101334@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I can also say he is a terrible person AND I celebrate his death.

          The world needs fewer warmongering cretins still drawing breath. I’m not going to do anything to kill them myself, but if they die of natural causes, fuuuuck yeah cheers to nature!

        • Madison420@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Define the difference between celebration vrs elation.

          I’m not gonna throw a party but I won’t rule out a hearty chuckle a jaunty happy dance.

          • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Having made an initial pass of the comments, there were really very few removable. Mostly blatant rule breaking like “Good!” and “I am celebrating!”

            The rule states “bannable” but not how long. The minimum I can set is 1 day. I’d probably have gone for something in the hours range, but it is not that granular. 😉

        • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          You need to justify why celebrating someone’s death should not be allowed.

          I’m not advocating for anyone dying, that’s a different bowl of nuts. Virtue signalling one’s own ethical purity might get you off, but it only annoys everyone else.

          • Pinto, the Bean@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Virtue signalling one’s own ethical purity might get you off, but it only annoys everyone else.

            That’s Jordan for you. And then being smug about it too.

          • morriscox@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Maybe we see enough vitriol towards Windows and Mac users, people daring to praise anything that isn’t FOSS, or saying something nice about someone who isn’t a liberal, that even when we are relieved when a certain person is no longer living we don’t want to read dozens or hundreds of me-too posts full of vitriol. There’s the upvote button for that. I’m glad he’s gone but making a separate comment to essentially echo groupthink is (somewhat) a waste of time and effort. In some ways Lemmy is no better than Reddit.

            I know that saying anything that goes against Lemmy groupthink and hatefeasts is guaranteed to get a down vote, but I don’t feel the need to make nasty comments so that I fit in around here.

            • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Then ban toxic posts. Don’t shoot everyone just because they don’t blow kisses at a monster.

                • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  I just watched a doco on the Nuremberg trials today in Netflix - by way of coincidence. These guys were the GOATs at instilling a sense of justice and fairness. That was their prime and only job. Guess what, they also celebrated the bad guys deaths. Especially the really bad guy, but also the henchmen like Goring (who topped himself).

                  I’ll not keep on arguing because we are both sick of the topic. I just don’t understand the sacred seperation between permitting calling someone an arsehole when they are breathing, but the moment they stop breathing you can’t say ‘fantastic’. Great news.

                  But as you say, them be the rules, I guess?

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          And you can say it’s the 25th of December without celebrating Christmas, but the question is, why would I?

        • TheHound@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          He was a terrible person and it is fitting to celebrate that he is no longer alive to impose his views through policy. Not celebrating his death, just the act of him no longer living. Him dying, sad for his family. Him not being alive, good for the nation. It’s a bad rule, do better.

          • HugeNerd@lemmy.ca
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            2 months ago

            I see, you’ll understand my confusion as your logo shows two cartoon hands whilst the OP shows… maybe a stump at best.

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              2 months ago

              That’s just the style. Drawing hands is hard and polandballs are supposed to be simplistic and crudely drawn.

              Also this meme is super old at this point, I think it was originally about McCain.

    • mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca
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      2 months ago

      that’s a shitty rule tbh

      I get it, it makes it easier to moderate. still a shitty rule.

    • 7101334@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I am celebrating Lindsay Graham’s death with a fat dab.

      Feel free to ban me. Preferably permanently if you’ll actually be enforcing that fuck-ass rule.

    • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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      2 months ago

      The UK has an entire holiday based around burning an effigy of a person you hate… I think we should be able to say we enjoy that he is dead to no longer hurt the living.

    • Pinto, the Bean@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Mainstream Respectable opinion is that people joking about a bad person’s death represents a culture of cruelty, but really it represents a culture of impunity. It’s a coping mechanism for watching someone do evil their whole life and never seeing consequences.

      • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Yup.

        We live in a society where the justice system simply doesn’t apply to the rich and powerful.

        All we’ve got is the celebration when nature finally makes them pay the piper.

        I’ll go to whatever platform I need to in order to have that.

    • TemplaerDude@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      Dumbass rule. Scum dies, people can celebrate. Pull the stick out of your ass before you start looking like a fucking Reddit powermod.

      • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Right? If Hitler rises from the grave and we curb stomp him back into it am I not supposed to celebrate?

        Bad people exist. It’s good when they stop existing. We should be able to acknowledge that. This isn’t Reddit and I never want it to be.

      • NeuralRot@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Yes, please. This stupid rule is so subjective to interpretation that mods misuse it everyday when it suits them. Fuck that shit!

      • bluesheep@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        Hard agree. I will celebrate every GOP death there will be like it’s the fucking last, of which I will actually hope to live to see the day where it will actually be the last.

        To the mods, stop sucking on that right wing dick and licking them boots, fuck the alt right and every fucker who supports them. May we dance on their graves till the end of times

        • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          It’s cool, you should have seen the crap we removed when Carter died. We aren’t playing sides here, that’s why it’s in the side bar.

          • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            You should just let us downvote them out of existence.

            Far as I’m concerned the only thing that should be removed are slurs and outright misinformation, which includes anti-voter sentiment.

  • Lasherz@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I think Jordan covered the rule existing and not to break it, but I’d like to discuss why it’s there to hopefully make this more transparent. Especially since Mitch may be croaking soon also (or already did, who knows?)

    Rule 6 is a necessary evil. The reason is that websites which are truly off the rails are often singled out. A mostly leftist forum would be even more likely to be targeted. Community mods should on occasion think what would these posts look like on an FBI filing, or on a hit piece on the DSA for example. Not the same morally, but famously many nationalist/racist sites have been targeted and then had their hosting or ddos protection revoked because of content on the site calling for death or celebrating it with their rules and enforcements having no such limitations.

    Different levels of extremes than here obviously, but the corporate landscape and justice dept is not on our side here and so interpretations which seem obvious to you may not be made before damage has been done.

    Above all, mods have a responsibility to not create problems for the site that hosts their coms, regardless of deserved or undeserved protection on someone’s legacy.

    Besides, it’s just as easy to say, “Warmonger Graham: Never an offensive war he didn’t support, never a dollar from Israel he didn’t immediately allow into his decision making process, never a brown person he didn’t want to kill. He has obtained what he wanted most for others, death. He can now start his final battle without his mortal coil, to start a regime change in hell.”

  • Azal@pawb.social
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    2 months ago

    I know that we’re not to celebrate death of Graham so I’ll say the nicest thing I can think about him.

    Today for breakfast I had two eggs and an apple.

  • robocall@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I wonder what the process in South Carolina is to replace him. I believe he was up for re-election this November. Will his seat be filled temporarily by the governor? Will his name remain on the ballot? I believe he already won the Republican Primary election in South Carolina, so how will another Republican candidate run? Anyone here familiar with South Carolina elections?

    • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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      2 months ago

      https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/sen-lindsey-graham-dies-71-brief-sudden-illness-rcna552722

      "According to South Carolina law, McMaster will appoint someone to fill Graham’s seat until Jan. 3 of next year.

      In June, Graham defeated multiple primary challengers to secure the nomination for a fifth term. South Carolina Republicans must now find a replacement nominee, with a special primary election expected by August 11 under the state’s election laws."

      So interim replacement for rest of term, new primary by 8/11 to pick a new Republican candidate, general election in November, whoever wins replaces the interim appointee in January.

      • MinnesotaGoddam@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        yeah, i like this method (have a special primary to replace a withdrawn candidate) better than just appointing someone. although ranked choice voting would have solved the problem already.

  • ExtremeDullard@piefed.social
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    2 months ago

    The swamp creature is dead!

    Wow, that really brightens up my Sunday!

    If this doesn’t prove karma exists, nothing does.

  • BigBenis@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I had always kinda hoped he’d live long enough to see his prediction of Trump destroying the Republican party fully play out. Can’t say I’m upset by the news despite that.

  • bdonvr@thelemmy.club
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    2 months ago

    Actually this is massive, massive news. The republican primaries are already over in SC. Given his sudden death likely nobody was prepping a campaign (Graham was already running for re-election). They’re gonna have to have a special primary in just a few weeks, and only a few months to build and win a campaign.

    Huge huge opportunity for Dems.

  • btsax@reddthat.com
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    2 months ago

    Here are some fun facts about South Carolina for those of you who have never been, unrelated to Lindsey Graham.

    Lindsey Graham is from a town called Central, which due to SC naming convention is in the northwest part of the state. Following the same convention there is also a town called North, South Carolina that is in the middle. Central also has a great Mexican restaurant called Pancho’s where you can go to celebrate any event you’d like

    In many parts of SC it is considered rude or unlucky to toss or throw beer on Sundays. This is because it is illegal to sell alcohol on Sundays in many places so if you toss a beer to your buddy at the campsite, for example, and they drop it, you can’t buy more till tomorrow. Please remember this tradition if you are having any celebrations on Sundays and want to honor South Carolina traditions.

    It’s customary in South Carolina to celebrate Bastille Day two days early. The reasons why are lost to history.

    • cmbabul@slrpnk.net
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      2 months ago

      If I still lived in Georgia I’d be driving up and braving yalls roads to celebrate this glorious day

      • MinnesotaGoddam@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        i mean i was just going to have a bagel and go for a bike ride. now i gotta grab a fancy something while i’m out

        • cmbabul@slrpnk.net
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          2 months ago

          I have two things I have to be sober to do today. After that I’m having several celebratory beers

    • Notyou@sopuli.xyz
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      2 months ago

      You have got to be kidding me? I normally don’t ask for proof for something that I could just Google, but bold claims require bold proof.

      Central also has a great Mexican restaurant

      You expect me to believe this? Great? How does it compare to any border town? I have a feeling it is mid at best.

  • zbyte64@awful.systems
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    2 months ago

    You can point out how this makes the world a better place but don’t celebrate that fact because it is against the rules here.