I mean with things like sex trafficking, labor trafficking, etc. IMO it should be called slavery, and those affected need to be rescued from slavery.
A pimp enslaves people
The Tate Brothers (allegedly) enslaved people.
IMO, referring to sex/labor trafficking to slavery will show it just how evil it actually is.
how is a pimp different than any other capitalist?
how come when it comes to the issue of sex everyone all of a sudden takes offense to someone taking a cut off the top?
aren’t car dealers pimps? aren’t they just car traffickers? isn’t mcdonalds a meat trafficker?
another question: why are women so feeble that a dude can show up at their door in a fur coat and a fedora and be like ‘you’re gonna fuck random dudes and i’m gonna take all the money’ and they’re like ‘ok.’
nowhere in culture do we consider this OK behavior so there’s no excuse for it. when men are down and out they suck down steel reserves and live in the park like normal people.
we need to talk about this.
A pimp is effectively, a manager for sex workers. They handle security and advertisement, and in return get a cut of the earnings.
Car dealers are salespeople.
Well for one, we don’t have to worry about a car-pimp coercing his automobiles into service as they’re not sentient beings.
I say they all have equally horrific connotation. But “forced labor” sounds like “slavery lite edition” when I read it.
This sounds terribly naive. You try and save a hooker, she’s going to knife you and take your wallet.
That’s a huge generalization.
A friend of mine fell into escort work when times were tough. Then she got out. At no time did she knife anyone.
Hahaha they don’t mean “save her” by picking her up in your car and taking her home, i don’t think.
Violent coercion of women and children into selling sex for their handlers (i.e sexual slavery) is very real. It needs to be shut down by the police, government, et cetera. The utter failure of police to shut down slavery organisations is a big reason people don’t trust the police at all. (Edit: probably adult men are being used as sex slaves right now, too, even in America or europe.)
This thread feels very Christian fundie. There’s a lot of definition dancing and cherry picking.
The pimp/prostitute relationship isn’t slavery. Hookers don’t want to be emancipated from hooking anymore than potheads want to be emancipated from their slavish addiction to the devil’s lettuce.
It has been a long time, but I was reading a story of a woman I think from Myanmar who was promised a good job in her career. The man groomed her into coming to the states. Somehow she got in. I think she was an engineer or a marketer of some sorts. She was going to send money back for her family and daughter.
She got in the U.S., they stole her passport, gave her “uniforms” ie lingerie .
She was very confused until she started getting daily grapes, all day, every day. There were no breaks. There were young men, old men, children, and women, living in one house.
People who are enslaved like that, IIRC, usually die within three to five years
Allegedly must be the Tate brothers’ Middle names.
OP needs to keep a dictionary in the shower.
But then it will get wet
The most egregious use of this is for entities people otherwise have some respect for. People bristle when I mention that California sends slaves to fight its forest fires.
Historians today have no problem recognizing slavery in historical cultures. They’ll have no problem stating that ancient cultures practiced slavery as a form of punishment, where you could be sentenced to slavery for a crime. But that never transfers to the present day. People get rather offended if you say California uses slave labor. They prefer terms like involuntary or forced labor.
But make no mistake, California sends slaves to fight forest fires.
Tell me more about this, please. Does California use prisoners or is it something else?
Yes. California uses involuntary prison labor to fight forest fires.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/la-wildfires-prisoner-firefighter-program-criticism-rcna187436
We call it involuntary prison labor. But if we are talking about one of the countless ancient societies that used to punish people with involuntary labor, we have no problem calling those people slaves. Rome sentenced thousands of people to slavery in its various mines, and we refer to that as slavery.
We have no problem recognizing slavery in ancient cultures. But when it comes to our society, we find all sorts of euphemisms to avoid using the word “slave.”
Holy crap. That’s so gross to think about.
I would understand if the government asked “Who is able and willing to learn and help,” but to force anyone to fight A WILDFIRE? That’s just sending people to horrible death sentence especially if barely trained.
It reminds me of Putin conscription prisoners to fight in Ukraine, only instead of killing others the government is putting you and your fellow untrained buddies on the line
Oh yes. Its kinda one reason I kinda roll my eyes at juneteenth. Its this arbitrary group that were freed but the bigger thing to me is the change in law which should be the date celebrated. I similarly find birthday holidays to be kinda dumb as to me is should commemorate the most significant thing the person did and usually there is something that can stand as the top thing. Of course celebration should have a lot of education on how it was not made illegal completely in the us (its legal for convicts) and that it goes on around the world. They say the price of a slave is actually cheaper in modern times than it was when there was a slave trade.
Human trafficking is the trading of slaves. It’s just a subset of what goes on around slavery.
You have to remember, in the US slavery isn’t really illegal, it’s just illegal to do privately. The state can, and does, still sentence people to slave labor. So the reason they refer to trafficking is that it’s the illegal part of the slavery.
Human trafficking is the trading of slaves
Then why aren’t we calling it slave trading?
not every trafficked human is a slave!
a refugee may pay a human trafficker to be smuggeled over the border to another nation
a rougue parent may kidnap a child from the other parent and traffick it away, the child may even approve btw
so these example show my point I think
not every trafficked human is a slave!
Then not every trafficker is criminal. So why is human trafficking considered a bad thing in itself? From your own post: Slavery is bad. Abductions are bad. But trafficking alone isn’t.
traffiking is per definition illegal, every traffiker is a criminal
Trafficking people out of North Korea is maybe illegal in North Korea, but nobody really cares. Same with Russian deserters.
What do you call transporting groups of people for money, when the only restraint is that the state doesn’t want those people where you are taking them?
What do you call transporting groups of people for money
Against their will or not?
Both
Not both. There is a massive moral difference between these two cases.
Legal and moral only rarely overlap, and usually by accident.
Legal and moral only rarely overlap
To the contrary. Most of legal framework is built on top of moral one
Slave trading at that point.
Trying to compare forced-labor and human trafficking to chattel slavery obscures and excuses the institution of slavery in the Americas.
Slavery apologists use these arguments. “Slavery is no worse than prison.” “Slavery still happens, and to white people”.
Their are some key differences, I’ll point out three.
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no matter how depraved and cruel the conditions of a trafficked person are, they don’t expect the same fate to befall their children and grandchildren.
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Human trafficking is illegal and rather looked-down-upon. Chattel slavery was considered normal, routine, necessary, and good throughout the society where it occurred.
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Human trafficking victims are legally people with rights recognized by the legal system; their abusers must hide their activities and fear punishment.
American slavery was exceptionally evil as far as forms of slavery go. There are other ways to enslave a person without legally owning their body. The modern form of legal American slavery, forced work through incarceration, is objectively still slavery, and slightly less evil than the chattel slavery of the past.
All slavery is inexcusable. All slavery is evil. Not all slavery is chattel slavery.
“You might get raped to death or executed when you’re too old for our customers but at least you have rights!”
Such a weird hill you choose to die on
Saved comment for future arguments. Thank you so much <3
No one is comparing it to chattel slavery though. Chattel slavery isn’t the only kind of slavery. Slavery is slavery, chattel or otherwise. Chattel slavery is slavery, human trafficking is slavery.
Slavery as a spectrum is a very odd argument to have.
But im pretty sure slavery has been around since shortly after opposable thumbs.
Tribes/raiders fought and took slaves/hostages/wives.
Intercontinental shipping was a new addition.
As for the generational fate of slaves … the Old Testament of the Bible has some talk of that.
American slavery was dehumanizing and violent. Most slavery would seem to be.
Spectrum wise? Not sure where it falls in the all time world wide list.
E.g. Rome probably better for slaves, Belgian Congo certainly worse.
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Wait… That means drug trafficking is… gasp Those poor drugs!
That’s why we boof them.
Because there is nothing to say. I’ve been up voting them because I am learning, not arguing.
Yep.
“A pimp enslaves people”
I’m not so sure that is always the case. A sex worker can find someone who ensures their safety and pay them to do so. They could also help find clients for them. At no point does the definition of pimp require the person to force the sex worker to do anything.
I guess I got A Pimp Named Slickback in my mind where he hits the women and treats them as objects, “What woman sir, this here’s a ho”
I’m all the protection of sex workers, as long as they have total freedom from such things. If a pimp is providing safety - actual safety, not gang type safety - then I’m all for it.
How did he become a household name lol
Boondocks was an amazing series lolol
Seriously, haven’t watched it in years. Instantly heard him in my head.
A sex worker can find someone who ensures their safety and pay them to do so
That’s not a pimp, that’s a bodyguard.
At no point does the definition of pimp require the person to force the sex worker to do anything.
“Pimp” has specific meaning in the US which criminalizes prostitution:
https://courses2.cit.cornell.edu/sociallaw/student_projects/PimpsandProstitutes.htm
A prostitute is defined as one who exchanges sexual favors for money, drugs, or other desirable commodities, while a pimp is one who controls the actions and lives off the proceeds of one or more prostitutes (Williamson & Cluse-Tolar, 2002; Dalla, 2002). Pimp-controlled prostitution is ubiquitous and the most common form of prostitution in the US by many estimates; the WHISPER organization found 90% of prostituted women they interview are pimp-controlled, Williamson and Cluse-Tolar (2002) estimate that 80% of prostitutes become involved with pimps over time
https://bridgelegal.org/what-is-pimp-legal-definitions-criminal-implications/
In American law, the term pimp refers to individuals who profit from the prostitution of others by coordinating or managing sexual services, often involving coercion, exploitation, or manipulation. Legal definitions vary by state, but common elements include deriving a financial benefit, organizing or controlling a sex worker, and facilitating prostitution.
Common Sex Trafficking Language
Exit Fee — The money a pimp will demand from a victim who is thinking about trying to leave. It will be an exorbitant sum, to discourage her from leaving. Most pimps never let their victims leave freely.
Finesse Pimp/Romeo Pimp — One who prides himself on controlling others primarily through psychological manipulation. Although he may shower his victims with affection and gifts (especially during the recruitment phase), the threat of violence is always present.
Gorilla (or Guerilla) Pimp — A pimp who controls his victims almost entirely through physical violence and force.
“John” (a/k/a Buyer or “Trick”) — An individual who pays for or trades something of value for sexual acts.
Kiddie Stroll – An area known for prostitution that features younger victims.
It is an intentional rebranding.
Why because the word slaves invokes all types of racism and therefore it can only happen to those people… You know those people that aren’t me…
It’s a separate charge, with a distinct meaning, but yes it’s usually used because people are afraid to call it slavery. Human trafficking also includes coyotes (people who clients hire to smuggle them across borders).
The Tates (allegedly but blatantly) trafficked people for the purpose of enslavement.
The more I think about this the more I think we need to bring back calling a slaver a slaver. Not just for the blunt acknowledgement, but also for the distinctions between someone operating an unlicensed brothel where the workers are free to leave vs one where they aren’t, or between a farmer who hires undocumented labor without threatening deportation vs one who will call immigration enforcement when a laborer demands safe working conditions or leaves for a competitor, or between a coyote who leaves you once you’re in and a trafficker who keeps your passport.
Human trafficking is per definition a form of modern slavery. But also sometimes used as a term to criminalise rescuers who help refugees.
