- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
So much for the constitution
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DIY 3D printers aren’t that difficult. It’s just two or three motors, a motion controller and a hot nozzle for most plastic printing. Replace the hot nozzle with a really epic laser for metal parts or possibly a stick welder. Even better with lithographic printing minus the really toxic fumes of the material. Take a really bright high resolution screen or maybe a projector and one motor and you got yourself a lithographic printer. Are you going to compete directly with cutting edge printers? Probably not. Will you still be able to make shit that works? Most likely after some tinkering.
Guess Californians need to grab an old printer real quick and hang on to it.
It won’t just affect Californians. Printer manufacturers will make one model for everyone, and it will comply with this law.
I friggin hate this authoritarian shit. And California no less. Sounds like some civil disobedience is called for.
Like what if I want to print a play gun for cosplay? Sorry, you live in a free country. Go buy a real one instead. And worse, someone might want to print a shape very similar to a gun but completely unrelated. Nope.
So now you can be a cyberpunk black market tech peddler for real?
Good, means less lunatics waving around guns. No objection here.
To the people bitching, it’s a moot point when you can buy a gun at virtually every wallmart in the country.Be honest. What percentage of gun crimes do you think 3D printed guns are?
Probably zero.
I just like the idea of there being less guns on the street.
I also like the idea of access to guns being highly regulated.I don’t disagree with you.
But this type of law is the exact same as the age verification laws.
There’s a plausible sounding risk, but if you dig deeper it’s always the government reducing freedoms in a way that doesn’t really help the stated goals.
325 3d printed guns were seized in 2024. That’s a drop in the ocean.
What’s wrong with age verification laws, exactly?
They sell it as wanting to protect children, but what they really want is to be able to track everything you do on your device, because the verification will happen at the OS level.
It’s something that sounds sensible at first. Of course it would be great to be able to prevent children from going certain places online and interacting with predators.
But what’s actually happening is everyone is sacrificing their right to privacy for pretty much nothing, because anyone determined enough can get around any safety measure. And both kids and criminals excel at creativity getting around blocks.
Not to mention that a lot of the verification happens through private companies, who shouldn’t be trusted with it.
Oh, I thought this was age verification to buy a firearm. But you mean age verification laws for online pornography.
Yeah fuck that shit.Ah, duh on my part. I should have specified.
This is stupid easy to bypass plus you still need metal parts to make it work
Guns are actually really easy to make and can be assembled from parts found at a local hardware store. If you want something fancier you could even mill a gun out of metal
Yeah but a right wing incel maniac trying to get a gun to go blow away a high school isn’t going to know how to mill his own gun. He might download on and use his father’s 3D printer to make one.
Won’t they just use his father’s gun? That’s what they always seem to do.
You can’t use a 3D printer to make a working gun and it isn’t possible to distinguish a gun from anything else.
This is security theater that hurts the general public and small businesses while giving yet more power to the wealthy
How does it hurt the general public, exactly? By not letting them shoot each other?
Because mass surveillance is bad? I don’t want my printer to send everything I print to private companies
Even if you are somehow ok with the surveillance, there are still issues with copywrite. I’m pretty sure it would be pretty easy for some large company to seal ideas or to prevent you from making replacement parts for stuff that you bought and paid for
Because mass surveillance is bad? I don’t want my printer to send everything I print to private companies
I am ok with someone not being able to print out a gun and then blow people away with it.
And if mass surveillance bothers you, then you should get rid of your cell phone.
Also, private companies already have every bit of information about you. How do you think Google and Facebook and Twitter make their money?Even if you are somehow ok with the surveillance, there are still issues with copywrite. I’m pretty sure it would be pretty easy for some large company to seal ideas or to prevent you from making replacement parts for stuff that you bought and paid for
Yeah but not everything I leagally buy and pay for can be used to murder people. For example, if I print out a battery cover for my remote control I then cannot go to a hotel room in Las Vegas and massacre 50 people at a country music festival with it.
The first thing they need to add to their DRM thing is those flexible dragons that have taken over half the booths at a local comic con. That and The Rock’s head.
Why? They are great.
3d prints that aren’t even a person’s own design have no place being in a line up of artists
For a first print, yeah. This is more me bitching about the artist alley of all my local cons being filled with 3D printed garbage than it is an endorsement of terrible DRM practices.
No really what it is is it’s what people want it’s what people like it’s what people enjoy so of course they’re being made. You have to remember only a small percentage of people own 3D printers but a lot of people really like the stuff that’s made from 3D printers. So they’re not being marketed towards you they’re being marketed towards everybody else. And they sell really well.
You’re describing 3D kitsch, not 3D art
I never said 3d art. I said there is a place for these. They were created by artists and some are absolutely amazing.
This was a conversation about artist’s alley which is for, you know, art. Not kitsch slop. And no, the world really doesn’t have a place for more useless plastic garbage.
They’re like 3D printer 101.
This is like seeing baby’s first print and they’re trying to sell it.
The dragon and Rock’s head is the Hello World of the 3D printer world.
I thought that was Benchy.
Are we even fucking free any more?
You’d think with a title that says “California just passed a law”, that it would actually be about California passing a law. It still has to go through the senate and then get signed by the governor.
Edit: The bill was passed in the Assembly back in May. This is a nearly 3 month old article.
Has a 3d printed gun been used in a crime? Ever?
Ask Luigi Mangione
Did Luigi Mangione do anything wrong?
News to me.
Not all illegal activities are morally wrong.
Very true based. Also happy cake day :)
Thank you!
Just like how not all law abiding citizens are moral.
Very good point. Planting evidence of a crime is itself a crime. /joke
Brian Thompson ?
Truly the type of people that need saving.
Very few. The ATF’s definition of “ghost gun” also includes ordinary firearms that have had the serial number filed off (which is a crime to do). The vast majority of crimes committed with “ghost guns” are committed with those; ordinary guns with the serial numbers scratched off
No because it isn’t possible to make a working gun with a 3D printer
However it is possible to make a gun with a few supplies from a hardware store
Oh no, don’t. Firmware can’t be flashed /s
smh
There are devices now that have a SoC that’s completely locked down at the factory, although maybe none are 3D printers. It deserves more attention as the massive threat to digital freedom that it is.
There are devices now that have a SoC that’s completely locked down at the factory, although maybe none are 3D printers.
That has been around for decades. I mean one time programmable microcontrollers has been around since at least the 90s, and probably earlier IDK I didn’t start doing embedded development until the 2000s. I guess devices with readout disabled has been around for about as long. I have no idea how much it is used in 3d printers though.
If you just don’t buy something locked down on a hw level, then because of the tinker tradition in 3d printing, you can relatively easy flash the firmware.
It deserves more attention as the massive threat to digital freedom that it is.
Yes, agreed. My point was on the futility of the law. But the fact of the matter is that the law exists and it shouldn’t from a freedom perspective. This is presented as a DRM issue, not a gun control issue. Should we ban printers because you may print a news article without buying the rights? Should we ban pen and paper because you could use it to infringe on a trademark by drawing it?
Just configured my router to block my new printer. Looking up how to set up Linux to block my slicer. Fuck this sucks.
Airgapping is the way
Shit, now how will I manufacture illegal sex toys and sex toy accessories in a covert, anonymous fashion? Woe is me…
How would this even be enforced?
Like, it seems like it would be a trivial process to just install a firmware package without the blocks.
it’s enforced by stopping most people from trying to get into making 3d printer software. Imagine if california made browser drm required: no more open source browsers
Don’t give them ideas
Imagine if california made browser drm required: no more open source browsers
Why would that be the case? If I’m a programmer in New York, or Germany, why do I care if my open-source browser meets California’s requirements? If there’s any chance of litigation, can’t you just slap “not for use in California” on it and call it a day?
Do you think California is the first and last place this will happen?
Say the entire country of America bans 3d printers without DRM, why would a German 3D printing enthusiast stop developing their firmware?
Note that I’m not saying these bans aren’t bad. They certainly can and will cause harm to the community as a whole. But I don’t see the argument of, “if it gets banned in x place, it goes away forever, for everyone”. There are thousands of projects that are already illegal and exist without issue online. Piracy is illegal but still easily doable, it’s already illegal in several states to 3D print certain gun parts but people still create the files and print them out.
It can’t. They want to destroy 3D printers and Free Software in general entirely.
Digital signatures and closed firmware.
From Lewis Rossmans bit on this from this morning, an internet connection and third party AI scanning tools.
So its a whole bucket of “fuck that noise”.
It’s probably just an extra charge they can throw at you if your house ever gets searched. Fuck hobby enthusiasts I guess
Not true (yet). Could be later, but for now, there’s no crime for circumvention.
And small businesses.
This is so stupid. This is designed by people who don’t understand 3D printing. This will catch nothing but fake guns that don’t work because they were printed in one solid piece, it won’t catch all the little pieces that you assemble afterwards.
Even more pointless than DRM on movies.
https://all3dp.com/2/how-to-build-a-3d-printer-from-a-kit-or-from-scratch/
Don’t worry. It won’t be long before possession of an unregistered 3D printer becomes a crime, too.
I thought this bill did that, but it looks like they crossed out the consumer circumvention clauses anyway.
That seems like a nightmare to set up.
Feels like people casually mocking car registration by pointing to the Hot Rod from Home Improvement.
I mean, sure. It can be done. But I failed to install a water cooling kit in my computer after a very long and harrowing weekend. I’m not fucking with this.
Same. Unfortunately I wasn’t born blessed with those levels of autism. I see a complex project that’d be awesome for my hobby and I change hobbies.
It more like mocking car registration because every neighborhood has a few people who can build you a car from scratch in a day, the city already has several thousand car factories that don’t require registration, there’s no mechanism to enforce registration, and the cost of building a new car is a few hundred dollars. The motivation for requiring registration is also to stop people from driving full speed into fast food restaurants is custom built murder buggys. Yeah, you don’t want people to do that but it’s not like it really happens all that often.
Building a 3d printer from a kit is different from building one from scratch. It’s basically screwing parts together and plugging colored wires into matching slots.
every neighborhood has a few people who can build you a car from scratch in a day
How many cars does the city demand be produced each day? Cause my own city of Houston sees over 380k new cars sold annually.
the city already has several thousand car factories that don’t require registration
Itty bitty ones, sure. And they take weeks to produce a working vehicle, of substandard quality.
there’s no mechanism to enforce registration
Until you get pulled over
the cost of building a new car is a few hundred dollars
A plastic car that can go maybe a few hundred miles before falling apart if it’s made perfectly.
Building a 3d printer from a kit is different from building one from scratch
You can build cars from a kit, too. But I’m not going to do that when I can buy a used Corolla or KIA for couch cushion money and drive it into the ground over the next fifteen years.
I’m not sure honestly sure what your point is, because you went a bit too far with the analogy.
Itty bitty ones, sure. And they take weeks to produce a working vehicle, of substandard quality.
This was about regulating 3d printers, not guns. A diy printer, a new drm printer and an old not-drm printer produce the same quality output.
A diy 3d printer is just as durable as a purchased one.
If your goal is to have an unregistered car, or in this case a drm free printer, the law seems silly when you can get one for cheaper than the “proper” one and have it out together in an afternoon if you have highschool level mechanical aptitude.
I’m not sure honestly sure what your point is
3D printers produce plastic crap.
Okay? What does that have to do with the drm mandate being easy to get around?
Is your point that it’s okay to put unenforceable, easily bypassed restrictions on stuff if you think they’re bad?What does that have to do with the drm mandate being easy to get around?
You can get around the DRM mandate with a bicycle. That doesn’t mean you’ve solved the underlying problem
Criminals have easy access to real guns, they won’t bother with printing plastic ones. A terrorist will just go to a place where they don’t monitor to print them.
