at least mac has a functional filesystem and shell lol
I feel like Mac is the right option for “normies”. Windows is basically malware at this point.
agreed
I just put my dad on kubuntu like two weeks ago he loves it
Linus: Now, I want to give Linux the fairest chance possible - That’s why I’m going to fresh install it blind during a 10,000 person LAN party, in the worst networking nightmare scenario possible
Yeah, that was fucking dumb.
That should have been a layup for linux ngl.
To defend Linus here, he’s always doing something
“Hmmm… testing branch. Sounds like the branch for me.”
Fair enough
Pop_OS! is fine, even if COSMIC is unrefined. It will get there eventually. Comparing it to Windows is libel.
I made the mistake of going with Pop_OS for one of my stores workstations. Its been an almost endless amount of frustration with all the stupid shit Pop has done. Is it better then windows? sure, but its down there with arch as a usable OS in anything outside of an LTT video.
Seems a bit of a self report that you’ve never used Arch IMO. I use it on a daily basis on 2 PCs and never have any issues. Arch is as good as the person using it.
I use Arch, btw.
When did I say I never used it? Its just not a good choice unless you really like to configure your Linux. For workstations that my staff (who are not interested in Linux or PCs at all) have to use, I go with things that are stable and easy like mint.
Its just not a good choice unless you really like to configure your Linux.
Yep, you have no clue.
For workstations that my staff (who are not interested in Linux or PCs at all) have to use
Nice Motte & Bailey fallacy retreating from the ridiculous statement that “…its down there with arch as a usable OS…” to try and seem more reasonable now.
Yep, you have no clue.
If I don’t want to fuck with the OS and if setting it up takes more then 15 min then its not a good choice, but please tell me to “get gud” about what I value in an OS. I am sure that is why so many people use arch over other distros, the kind support.
Nice Motte & Bailey fallacy retreating from the ridiculous statement that “…its down there with arch as a usable OS…” to try and seem more reasonable now.
That is why it is not a useable OS, 100% the fact that laypeople have to daily drive it. There was no retreating from me, not at all, I stand by my statement that arch is not a usable OS for workstations. And before you try and say that “for workstations” is some sort of moving the goalposts, I made the statement on arch not being usable in a comment about putting distros on my stores workstations.
The problem is that you didn’t state your premises very well, making your argument harder to follow. (You also argue very broadly.)
You first argued that Arch is not a usable operating system, which is a bold claim given that it’s one of the most popular Linux distros. While you did mention a workstation before, the claim regarding Arch wasn’t obviously connected to that, implying that Arch is not useful for any purpose.
When asked to back up that claim you talked about workstations for nontechnical users (which hadn’t been mentioned before). That didn’t match your earlier claims; you made a broad statement and then defended a narrower one. That’s indeed a motte and bailey argument even if you simply forgot to mention some details.
Also, if the users are nontechnical they’re probably not the ones who administer the workstations so they don’t need to care about technical details as long as you can provide a desktop and the applications they need.
After that you declared that any OS that needs more than 15 minutes to set up is useless, which amounts to pretty much all of them unless you don’t engage in any configuration at all. And, well, it’s another bold claim. It’s basically on par with “Mint is completely pointless because unlike Alpine I can’t use it to ship 5 MB Docker images”; you’re basically declaring that your specific use case is equivalent to any use case any Linux user will ever have.
A coherent version of your argument would be “I don’t like Arch because when I set up workstations for Linux-averse users it was much more work than Mint and I prefer something that’s quick and easy to set up”. And fair enough, that’s a perfectly valid reason for you to prefer Mint over Arch. But it’s not an indication that Arch is worse in general or even unusable. It’s just a bad fit for this specific use case.
You first argued that Arch is not a usable operating system, which is a bold claim given that it’s one of the most popular Linux distros. While you did mention a workstation before, the claim regarding Arch wasn’t obviously connected to that, implying that Arch is not useful for any purpose.
The statement was made in a comment that was in its entirety:
“I made the mistake of going with Pop_OS for one of my stores workstations. Its been an almost endless amount of frustration with all the stupid shit Pop has done. Is it better then windows? sure, but its down there with arch as a usable OS in anything outside of an LTT video.”
There are 3 or 4 total sentences in the whole thing and the very first one is laying out that this whole thing is about workstations. I don’t know how much more I could do other then literally plan for this argument that you started.
As far as not mentioning nontechnical users, fuck right off with that, all users are nontechnical unless otherwise stated. Anyone who has had to set a computer up for anyone other then themselves knows this. I did not make the comment assuming that someone would get bent out of shape and look for any “win”.
Also, if the users are nontechnical they’re probably not the ones who administer the workstations so they don’t need to care about technical details as long as you can provide a desktop and the applications they need.
They have a stick with mint on it and I can and have walked them though reinstalling mint from a stick and then have them connect to the back up system to retrieve the files used for work. The stores are 250 kms apart, you can not in good faith tell me arch is appropriate unless you have an administrator on site (and if I was that administrator I would likely strike you). I used to make rollup disks to do this, but hey guess what has more or less gone away? I can have the workstations up and running in 15 min with a mint stick, with default install options. That is important to me and frankly a lot of places. There are quite a few distros that can do this as well, this is not a feather in mints cap. Configuration is not a thing that needs to be done unless it needs to be done, to think otherwise is just admitting the unconfigured distro is not any good.
A coherent version of your argument would be “I don’t like Arch because when I set up workstations for Linux-averse users it was much more work than Mint and I prefer something that’s quick and easy to set up”. And fair enough, that’s a perfectly valid reason for you to prefer Mint over Arch. But it’s not an indication that Arch is worse in general or even unusable. It’s just a bad fit for this specific use case.
There is no situation where you are setting up workstations for users that are not Linux-averse outside of a Linux development environment, in which case those users will not like that you set up arch for them, as if they are arch fans they will also want to do their own configurations.
That all being said, if I had the time and desire I could see making a arch rollup sort of thing custom made for an organization. I just don’t need to as a distro like mint has everything the store needs already there by default.
I loaded pop os years back for the nvidia support and since i bought hardware from the same manufacturer that supplies system76. Its been fine, no complaints other than the battwry life…to be expected.
I found out that sys76 keeps most its software and drivers only for machines it sells. When i try to install things, i get unknown system. Fyi
Yes but LTT will define his Linux desktop experience through PopOS which is shipping a very alphaish-betaish DE. A normie will think this how Linux actually is and will never switch. He should have gone with the parent distros or at least a well respected derivative like Bazzite, Cachy, Mint.
And there is nothing on the pop os page ahead of the downloads that indicates the DE is any sort of alpha or beta.
Anything close is way at the bottom where it says Cosmic is new and being developed.
LTT will define his Linux desktop experience
I’ll just say LTT is a channel not a person, and the latest “Linux challenge” has three participants each with their own approaches and opinions.
Including one who was super stoked to switch to Linux and actually properly prepared.
Ubuntu on a desktop, mint on an older laptop, and Pop_OS on my daily driver laptop…
What am I doing wrong here?
What am I doing wrong here?
Ubuntu on a desktop
See, that’s what I don’t get, it works fine. Plays games and browses the Internet. Why is that wrong?
Do you have any snaps installed? Each one slows down your boot time because every snap is virtually mounted on boot.
You think you don’t have any snaps? Ubuntu hijacks apt commands to install snaps.
You removed snaps completely from your system to avoid that? Ubuntu reinstalls it after an update.
And that’s besides the fact you’re trusting a closed source app store that’s managed by scum who sold user data to Amazon. They can literally add whatever spyware they want to FOSS and you won’t know it. And considering how many people accused them of illegally harvesting data through Azure Ubuntu images…
I have personally had a lot of issues with pop os on my laptop (related to power management, waking up the WiFi card, overheating leading to a kernel panic, GPU refusing to go to sleep), which disappeared as soon as I installed Endeavour OS.
the interessting thing with linus is that he 1. plays the non tech person and 2. has pretty bad luck with linux fetures that are broken or bugs because he stumbles over them to 120%.
I also like the contrast between Linus and Luke because Luke drives Mint on his Laptop and cachy os on something other and he has very few problems.
Arch is goat. My first distro was Fedora. Absolutely hated DNF so then I switched to Mint but didn’t like Cinnamon— felt like I was using Android (I love Android but not on desktop lol). Also I has to wait longer for features. Switched to Arch with KDE and never looked back.
What were your issues with dnf?
It was a 5-6 years back so I don’t know the current state but I am sure it must great (also I was a Linux noob). It was terribly slow. Like my connection is 250 Mbps but I was getting downloads of like 10 Mbps with the repos even with the mirrors near to me. Every time it updated it like got stuck over there for a minute. I searched on reddit and there were a lot of complaints and the solutions involved the terminal to change the mirrors using nano (and I was scared of the terminal back then) so I just ditched fedora after a year (rest of the system was pretty fast though) and switched back to Windows for a few months then again to Mint.
There I learnt Linux fundamentals step by step for a year & a half and thought I want the latest and greatest stuff. I learnt something like the AUR existed. Installed Arch with archinstall with btrfs, first with KDE Plasma and I got excited and installed Hyde’s Hyprland script (lol) and shit broke pretty quick like in 2 months and I didn’t know how to fix. Went back to Mint, but thought naah. Took me a few days to learn but installed Arch the manual way by actually RTFM and a few YT Tutorials. Stuck with KDE and never looked back.
Heh, that’s quite the ride. Although not that unusual for Linux people, I guess
Thanks for sharing!
Luke has had problems he mentions on the WAN show. But they two really arent comparable because Luke’s use case is completely different hes much closer to the average person. He only uses a web browser and some light gaming.
Average person?
In talking computer literacy, he is easily within the 1 percent of the 1 percent.
The difference is Linus is not an average person but for these Linux challenges tries to pretend to be (people who work in tech are generally very bad at pretending to be average users) meanwhile Luke wasn’t pretending to be someone he’s not
Oh does he do it like chess engines where it seems like playing at a low level is still playing with an almost prefect engine, only it adds random “inaccuracies” that are mistakes no human would ever make, like suddenly hanging their queen with no actual intent behind the move other then being a random mistake?
Like “oh, a average user would have made a mistake by now, so let’s remove an important directory to simulate that”?
Wut popos is pretty good got it on all other family members computors
Linus managed to uninstall his desktop environment by installing Steam because there was an issue with deps on the package and he didn’t really look at the list of packages that would be uninstalled either.
And now he’s doing another Linux challenge and he picked Pop again. Which is now using COSMIC which is in Alpha stage at the moment, so a recipe for more issues lol
Yeah I’m a pop fan but as exciting as COSMIC is, it’s still just not ready. The Gnome version with the cosmic gnome-shell extensions is much better.
Popos was my first linux distro in like 10 years and i had absolutely no problem with it. I switched to catchy os but for no particular reason.
Caught me off guard with the Linus part. I laughed so much. Lmao
What did he do this time?
He chooses pop over and over again at the worst times. The beta of cosmic was buggy for his use. And he installed it in the middle of a lanparty no less. That said. He eventually switched to mint same as Luke I think. Luke who has also been using, by the way. And he and Luke have had pretty positive things to say this time. Between windows actively going to shit and Linux continuing to chug along and improve.
The beta of cosmic was buggy for his use
was there no testing, alpha or pre-alpha builds available?
homerQuietEveryoneHesAboutToDoSomethingStupid.jpg
What is supposedly wrong with my operating system?
he installed pop and it shipped cosmic by default with no warning that it was unstable. He had a bad experience for 2 days then switched to another distro.
Nothing, just the national sport of complaining
A YouTuber entered a command, it warned him it would delete system files. He said yes and concluded Linux was flawed.
The joke is that if you’re that guy then even Pop won’t work for you.
He actually did a video after that where they do s “Linux challenge” and he, again, chooses PopOS, and again is the only one of the three participants to run into issues.
Stupid take - the warning came when he ran sudo apt install steam, not even a joke. He said yes but there is literally no reason that command should break his entire OS. If it wasn’t flawed then why was it fixed later on?
is that windows icon supposed to represent windows in general or only win7?
That’s the vista start button lul
Ray tracing on Linux doesn’t work well. Windows doesn’t have that issue
ew windows
is there a poop os?
i want to send it on a disk to my sister.
