“importing” … did a Hemp plant write this?
Challenging to criticize Singapore if you’re from somewhere with monthly massacres of school children.
Two things can both be bad.
Impossible
Not everyone on the internet lives in the US
Not at all. Murder is murder regardless of the country.
How could you possibly think that is challenging? Of course it should be criticized.
the monthly massacres aren’t government policy. executing a cannabis trafficker is.
Good news! Lemme just go to the parents and tell them!
I don’t see what schoolkids parents has to do with a government sanctioned execution of a cannabis trafficker.
There is an active policy of not preventing cold massacres. Hope that clarifies the point.
There is no official “active policy” at the national level that I’m aware of. -As for unofficial policy, that varies from one municipality to the next, and from one state to the next. Is the Singaporean policy of executing cannabis traffickers not an official national policy carried out uniformly across the country?
… and Singapore has an active policy of condoning and committing murder. That’s bad.
I pray that clears things up for you.
That makes a ton of difference to the dead schoolkids.
the article doesn’t say anything about the schoolkids POV on the dead traffickers or maybe you should just stay on topic
Not very relevant distinction for the murdered children
not really relevant to the topic at hand.
aren’t government policy
That could be debated. They’re certainly at least the standard they walk past and accept.
if you’re putting officially written and sanctioned government executions in writing up against the unofficial unsanctioned killings not in writing, I’d be more scared of what the government has written down in policy as there is no possible alternative.
And yet…Singapore has a very low crime rate, is stable, safe and is incredibly wealthy.
Stability and wealth seem poor metrics to use as a argument for this, as they can be affected by so many other aspects of governance. Also I’m not convinced of the effect of capital punishment on crime rate, especially when it comes to illicit substances, as it can cause people to be just be extra cautious.
Although if anyone has any data to the contrary I would love to see it.
Singapore is small and the government is heavy handed in anything drug related. A “massive” anti drug sweep netted less cannabis than the smuggler in this post had.
https://www.mha.gov.sg/media-room/publications/compilation-of-drug-related-studies-and-surveys/
Based on the survey findings, it is estimated that about 0.7% of Singapore residents had consumed an illicit drug at least once in the last 12 months.
Here I am in Canada, Just finished a perfectly legal grow for my own personal use and got 28 oz from it
well I’m sure he won’t ever do that again!
surely he learned his lesson.
And that’s why I’ll never move to Singapore.
Because you cant avoid repercussions of easily avoidable actions?
That’s an appropriate username.
Yep, thats the typical response when people are backed into a corner and cant make a valid retort.
LOL you didnt realize that wasnt comment OP. Username still fits.
And another one attacking the person cause they cant say anything against the message.
Very smug, how many innocent deaths are you comfortable with?
Cops are found planting evidence all around the world… the judged are proven innocent with DNA every day.
… and even if everything above wasn’t the case, even IF every one of the guilty were truly guilty… they were each murdered by the State, many with no blood on their hands.
It’s an abomination. But be smug about it, it lets everybody know what you are
You know what else is easily avoidable? Not murdering people. Singapore should try it
Singapore does try it.
Thats why there are warnings everywhere about what will happen to you if you are so unfathomably self centered and stupid to try and do it anyways.
Basically begging people NOT to do it.
And no amount of your performative pearl clutching will change the fact that this is the smugglers fault and that he faced the very publicly known consequences of it.
Trying to compare it to police planting evidence is a fucking insult to actual victims.
But I’m the smug one. Yeah, sure buddy.
Singapore does try it.
Not very hard. Stop murdering people over transporting plants.
Simple.
Thats why there are warnings everywhere about what will happen to you if you are so unfathomably self centered and stupid to try and do it anyways. Basically begging people NOT to do it.
Doesn’t matter, still murder.
And no amount of your performative pearl clutching will change the fact that this is the smugglers fault and that he faced the very publicly known consequences of it.
Not the smuggler’s fault often; many are doing this unaware. For example, driving a vehicle for work without knowing your coworker is a smuggler.
But, even IF every single one was 100% guilty (even though this is not the case), it’s murder.
Many are totally innocent. It doesn’t matter to you.
Trying to compare it to police planting evidence is a fucking insult to actual victims.
Wrong. Imprisoning and murdering people over plants is a fucking insult to all humanity
But I’m the smug one. Yeah, sure buddy.
You’re revolting to me, pal. You are defending murder.
No, because I require prescriptions that would earn me a death sentence there.
You might want to get a better doctor. Cannabis has been found to be ineffective for most of the conditions it’s prescribed for. The very few that it has shown effectiveness for have better treatment options available. https://www.uclahealth.org/news/release/evidence-lacking-medical-cannabis-most-conditions
Cannabis has been found to be ineffective for most of the conditions it’s prescribed for.
No, it hasn’t.
Cannabis has been proven to be a very effective treatment for nausea and seizures and more (as your source clearly indicates immediately).
Reading is hard ¯\(ツ)/¯
Also, studies were quite impossible until recently (with the relaxation of The Drug War). We’re still learning about the efficacy.
Regardless, cannabis has been an effective treatment for many medical issues for centuries for a reason, as we are still discovering, as your source clearly indicates.
Ain’t cannabis, which is exactly my point since the classification of “narcotic” is too arbitrary to justify the sentence of death, but thanks for the pop medsci slop.
As far as I know, all other narcotics prescribed in the US are allowed in Singapore with an HSA approval, which is exactly my point.
I’m not in the US, and I know for an absolute fact that mine isnt. Even if that were all true, guess what, that permit would not qualify me to move there with my medication as it is not permanent. Even if that wasn’t the fucking case, then I would still not want to risk a lapse in renewing my permit or filing it improperly and losing access to my medication or worse.
You do not know enough about this topic to be so dedicated to pushing misinformation. Fuckin internet dudes die on hills they don’t even care about enough to look up shit, why?
Take a chill pill. I did look up the HSA application for medicines. Cannabis and chewing gums were specifically banned, but nothing else was called out.
Because they will never let him in in the first place. Vast majority of countries don’t take in immigrants.
William Gibson (author of Neuromancer among other things, not all of them good) published an article about Singapore 30 years ago. It’s titled Disneyland with the Death Penalty.
33 years later and much of this is still very relevant. It has dated somewhat, but accurately reflects what I experienced in Singapore during work travel over the past few years.
At the least, if you’re interested in what dystopian science fiction writers think about Singapore it certainly dropped some puzzles pieces into place for me.
Disneyland with the Death Penalty.
Actually it is pretty fitting since their judicial system is medieval. They still do caning for example.
Fuck that sounds weird and uncomfortable of a place. I need some sketch to feel comfortable.
I need some scotch to feel comfortable.
I need some scratch to feel comfortable.
Crotch.
Disneyland with the Death Penalty
I’ve also heard it referred to as China Lite.
Long ago, I dated a Singaporean woman, closely connected to the ruling elite, educated at British public schools and a top-tier university. According to her, along with the relentless propaganda claiming Singapore is a meritocracy, there is also a deep underlying culture of corruption. It’s bad for your health and future income to compete in business against ruling-family-connected ventures. When bidding on major contracts, you’ll need insiders or their proxies to be partners or you’ll be frozen out. There’s nothing as vulgar as open bribery happening, but self-dealing, conflicts of interest and biased courts deliver the same outcomes. And whatever you do, don’t be a prominent member of an opposition party if you value your livelihood and freedom.
And if you’re a Singaporean Malay, know your place or you’ll end up in deep trouble. There are a few tokenism opportunities if you don’t rock the boat.
I’ve been there on business a few times. At least it seems they’re not persecuting gay people as much anymore, and civil society is a bit more open than it was a couple of decades ago. They even seem slightly less obsessed with caning and massive fines for minor offences than they used to be. But “less stifling” is far from the same as “free.”
Horrifying but not surprising given heavy-handed conservatism the island is known for, as conviction rates are much high, the government will keep order at the pleasure of their prime minister.
Singapore makes it extremely clear this is the punishment for smuggling any drugs.
This is what the paper disimberkment form used to look like before they switched to an electronic version.
They also make sure to repeat that on any flights landing there.
Once you’re on the plane, you’re already committed.
If they declare them before disembarking, they will likely avoid capital punishment. Still will result in a heavy sentencing, though.
Guess what? If you put up 50 signs saying “Trespassers will be shot!!!” all over your property, and some kid trespasses to get his crashed drone and you fill them full of bullets, you’re still a murderer.
Singapore is murdering people, and it’s revolting. Concentration camps were legal… but we still call it murder today, now don’t we?
Singapore is just as guilty
That’s really fucked up.
It probably is fucked up. But if you know the consequences of getting caught, why would you risk it? If freedom to do drugs is important either be in a jurisdiction that is lenient.
I mean you can try to change the laws and try to protest and get political change, but that wouldn’t leave you much off in Singapore’s authoritarian air.
So the question is, was the hit of recreational drug that important to take the risk?
I’m not saying what or what shouldn’t be, I’m just saying knowing you know what IS, why would you? It’s like you know lava is hot, but you step in it anyway because it should be a morally a volcanic rock.
was the hit of recreational drug that important to take the risk
He didn’t get executed for taking a “hit”.
He got executed for trafficking a kilo.
Which is still pretty stupid, because 500 grams is the cutoff for the death penalty. He would have been better off to bring in 499 grams. But I assume he was going to make a pretty good profit, and that money was his main motivation.
Right, clearly so was the risk of a quick buck worth his life? Should be the question.
The guy was an idiot. Doesn’t change the fact that Singaporean authoritarianism is fucked up. Being an idiot shouldn’t be a death sentence.
Death sentence for being an idiot is exactly what the US needs right now
More than half the population would be executed.
Now now, don’t threaten us with a good time!
We know innocent people are found guilty every day, all over the world.
Only an idiot would cheer on a murderous state, it’s a shame.
Being an idiot shouldn’t be a death sentence.
Sometimes I wish it were. But then I’ll do something idiotic and have second thoughts.
I’m not in favour of the death penalty, but consider how much lives get destroyed with drug addiction.
If you care about addicts, advocate for spending money on social services that help these people. Killing (or imprisoning) dealers have no real effect, we have decades of data on this.
Singapore is such a fucked up place, yet righties love to act like it’s some utopia.
And yet, it’s very socialist.
Dunno shit about Singapore but even if this is true, the economic style of the country does not dictate its capital punishment statutes
and it promotes harmony between different cultures in a way I’ve never seen - you can’t talk shit about anyone based on religion, for example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Singapore
“The Sedition Act also prohibits seditious acts and speech which “promote feelings of ill-will and hostility between different races or classes of the population of Singapore,” and the Maintenance of Religious Harmony Act (MRHA) empowers the Minister for Home Affairs to take a pre-emptive approach by issuing restraining orders against a religious leader that has committed or is attempting to commit certain acts threatening religious harmony.”
it’s a microcosm of different cultures crushed together with little room for debate, should things go partisan conflict tragedies would rapidly ensue; but the restrictions on freedom of speech seem fraught with potential pitfalls…
I look at Singapore like Taiwan - they seem to genuinely try to do the best for a broader range than most, and each face unique ethnic and geographic complexities that they’ve overcome through enginuity and clever, hard working populaces.
But yeah, murdering people for pot… fuck man…
Maybe it’s modeled after Star Trek: Next Generation episode “Justice”
An otherwise nice planet/society with some really extreme punishments.
Singapore’s main party (PAP) doesn’t fit cleanly in the western right-left paradigm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Action_Party
Center-right, Democratic socialist, anti-communist, “Communitarianism”
No organization in any place fits cleanly in the “western” right-left paradigm. Not even in the US that’s the place people call “western”.
They are not democratic socialist. They even
got kicked outresigned from Socialist International.The PAP was officially committed to democratic socialism from its inception in 1954 until its resignation from the Socialist International in 1976.
In 1976, the PAP formally resigned from the Socialist International (SI) after the Dutch Labour Party had initially proposed to expel the PAP for the Singapore government’s internment of political prisoners without trial, and accused it of human rights violations.[116][117]
I think they were referring to Chia Thye Poh and various other crackdowns of “commie scum” boogiemen. Its worth noting Singapore only became a country in the 60s.
As a result, and without ever facing indictment or criminal trial, he became one of the longest-serving political prisoners in the world. Restrictions on his civil rights remained in force for more than 32 years following his arrest, and the duration of his detention was often compared to that of Nelson Mandela, who spent over 27 years in prison following his conviction for treason, sabotage and other political crimes.[1]
(NCMPs kinda sorta address the issue of a single party system. Feels more like a bandaid at best and controlled opposition at worst)
Disneyland with the death penalty.
William Gibson wrote that Wired article years ago in his brief visit to Singapore.
thats just regular disneyland isnt it?
Don’t fuck with the mouse.
I guess that explains why he and Minnie never had kids.
So Disneyland.
Imagine killing a human being for possession of a harmless plant. It’s wildly unjust.
Harmless… Until you kill some pedestrian because you DUI.
You could argue that it is a lack of education about the effect of such substance, but on the other hand, I’ve met enough potheads to know that they know about it, and just have such hubris that they believe those averse effect only affect others. They are “perfectly awake, maaaan” 😅.
Still, death penalty is far too much for such crime.
Weed + cars doesn’t seem to be a big problem in a state where legal weed is everywhere unlike alcohol.
A great deal of alcohol is consumed out late at night in places one is likely to drive to and from. Almost all accidents happen to people who are plastered not least of which because drunk people get increasingly confident and simultaneously incapable of judging their ability.
Worse drunk people even quite drunk people can reasonably pilot a car which is why most DUIs are given only after hundreds miles of drunk drinking.
People’s false confidence is rewarded right up until they go to jail or kill someone.
Weed rarely produces the degree of impairment and when it does you aren’t going anywhere. Also since there are no legal venues to smoke it you are most commonly at home
In places where cannabis has been legalized, a common side-effect is a decline in traffic fatalities. Weed smokers are more likely to be couch-locked when they’ve had too much, rather than going out driving like drunks do.
have such hubris that they believe those averse effect only affect others
TBF there is a lot of variability in how cannabis affects different people. I’ve got a friend who had to quit because it made him extremely paranoid, to the point that he’d hallucinate. That isn’t universal by a long shot. I haven’t experienced paranoia or hallucinations, the biggest side effect I’ve experienced is sleepiness. Meanwhile my friend found it harder to sleep while high because his brain kept playing tricks on him. Very different brains, very different results.
Though I don’t doubt that plenty of people misjudge their abilities while high, just as they misjudge their abilities when drunk. But it’s important to note that it isn’t necessarily hubris that makes a person say, “Weed doesn’t do that to me.” Some of us genuinely experience different effects. You can’t truly know what’s going on in someone’s head unless you’re the one living in it.
True.
That’s just my own experience with my own potheads friends. Some of them who got into accidents because they thought they where better than other, and misjudged how much cannabis affected them.
Not everyone is like them, sure. But to this day I never met someone who act rational when under the influence of drugs. Maybe I didn’t met enough drugs user, who knows.
Everywhere that has legalized weed had this same bullshit scaremongering about how cars are going to be running over schoolchildren every 5 seconds because everyone would just be driving around high all the time.
That hasn’t happened at all, so why do you still make the bullshit claim?
ao why isn’t insomnia punishable by death or otherwise? That would potentially lead someone to crash a car too.
Driving while knowingly impaired is an offence in the UK.
again, the comment I was replying to said weed should be illegal just incase you dui and I was saying “why isn’t being tired in case you drive illegal then?”
Do you chose to take insomnia? I’d doubt that.
But to be clear : I am against death penalty. It robs any chance for someone to change for the better, and even the worst criminal can change and try to repair, even partially, the damages he did. In the current case the death penalty is way overblown. But not everyone would be of that opinion, unfortunately.
I can absolutely choose not to go to bed, yes.
Not going to bed and insomnia are two different things. Insomnia is a condition where you try to sleep, and can’t. Not going to bed, well, is a choice.
In both cases, you can be held responsible if you end up falling asleep on the wheel while sleep deprived, and cause an accident.
In both cases, you can be held responsible if you end up falling asleep on the wheel while sleep deprived, and cause an accident.
But that’s not what you said - you were saying that because people have the potential to cause an accident when smoking weed they should be executed.
If is was the case, I understand better the downvotes. That wasn’t my intention de frame it like that, I’m against death penalty.
What I intended to say is that people who takes substances that impair their judgement, and go drive afterward are a danger to everyone around them. They should be sanctioned, just not by death penalty, which, again, make no sense whatsoever in any situation.
Cannabis isn’t a harmless plant, unless it is a variety without THC (study: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9940647/). And I doubt a smuggler would import Cannabis without THC. Smuggled cannabis are almost always THC heavy plants, and considering how much he seem to have with him, he either intended to fly to the moon and back, or to sell it around.
Now, THC heavy cannabis is a problem because, like alcohol, it impair the jugement about how ready to drive one is, and I’ve seen many of my friends get into accidents because they thought they where somehow not affected by THC. My words were harsh, no doubt, but I never called for any of them to get death penalties.
Edit: drug resistance exists, of course, but isn’t frequent. I happen to have a mild resistance to opioid based painkillers (found out after a surgery, worst pain I have been for a long time 😅)
People choose to “take insomnia” every second of every minute of every hour of every day, in thousands of ways.
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I agree with you on that. Weed shouldn’t be illegal, no more that alcohol.
But saying that it has nothing to do with cannabis is a bit like saying alcohol as nothing to do either. The averse effects on attention is a direct consequence of those substances consumptions.
It the choice of the user to consume it or not, but as it also impair said persons sens of danger, the choice to go driving despite said substances consumption can partly be attributed to the substance itself.
is a bit like saying alcohol as nothing to do either
Yep. Alcohol is legal. Driving while impaired by it is not.
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Cars should be outlawed, not weed.
Sober drivers kill more people every year than weed alone. If we had to choose between staying home and using weed to get high, or driving literally anywhere, the safest option is to stay home and get stoned.
Cars should be outlawed
Driving and car ownership in Singapore is cartoonishly expensive and heavily regulated.
It probably will be outlawed in a decade or so.
It’s also now all tracked. Every vehicles are now required to install a tracker that is used for charging for toll roads and automatically fine you for speeding at any time.
As a cyclist, I’d agree, but there are many place where public transportation and bikes can’t go, especially in the countryside. So cars make sense. Cannabis too, as it has a lot of medical uses. But cannabis in car are where it becomes a problem.
there are many place where public transportation and bikes can’t go, especially in the countryside
Are we still talking about Singapore?
In that case no. If I remember it well, Singapore is quite small, I suppose bike should be enough for most uses except if you have to move big things, or a lot of groceries, in which case cars makes sense.
In my case I have a cargo bike, and live near a mid-sized city, so I can just go do my groceries cycling. But someone who is further in the countryside wouldn’t be able to. Partly because of the distance, no one want to do a two hours trip (or more) to buy groceries, but also because having cars zooming past you at 70km/h and more is kinda stressful.
Case is, cars have uses, cannabis too, but both shouldn’t be used at the same time.
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Thank god you don’t 😂
(Just kidding, you do anything you want as soon as you don’t DUI. I’ve seen enough death from that, don’t want anyone else to loose a loved one to one of those assholes)
a plant so harmless that someone felt compelled to smuggle it into a country thats known to be extremely hostile to it, ignoring hundreds of warnings, bypassing several opportunities to get rid of it, and ultimately being caught with it and facing the very predictable, very openly warned and expressed repercussions?
A plant that drives someone to do that doesnt sound so harmless to me.
Well that’s only natural because you’re just a random idiot.
People would smuggle chocolate bars if they were made illegal, that doesn’t make them harmful.
So far the Singaporean government has killed a lot more people than cannabis ever did, and for what?
People would smuggle chocolate bars if they were made illegal, that doesn’t make them harmful.
What if I told you a chocolate bar killed my family?
Well I would be lying but WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Well I would be lying but WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Sounds like something that should be said to the stupid fuckers commiting suicide by government by doing this stupid shit.
wOn’T sOmEoNe ThInK oF tHe ChIlDrEn
(You want to legalize Pedophila)
Where the literal fuck did you get that idea!?
A plant that drives someone to do that doesnt sound so harmless to me.
Audrey II
It’s a question about respecting a society’s conventions. When you enter a country, you choose to abide with the laws in place, even if you disagree with them. Singapore makes it very clear what happens to those who smuggle drugs.
While one should avoid getting executed, it’s also fucked up that country does it
While one should avoid getting executed,
Wise words to live by.
Never respect a murderous society, it’s stupid.
Fine people for conventions, sure. You don’t see any mena country straight up executing women for not wearing a hijab, despite their claims that it erodes ‘morality’.
Their country, their law. The best way to force them to change is to not give them your business.
I’m not in any way, shape or form defending the policy of Singapore, but… given that they do have a death penalty for this, why the hell did he carry 1 kg into the country? I’ve been to Singapore and I was afraid to even let go of my bags for a second, for fear that someone would plant something on me.
People must sign a paper on the plane acknowledging that import drugs carries the death penalty, even before landing.
The result shouldn’t be surprising for anyone.
Interesting, is it possible to receive that paper, and surrender yourself immediately and basically say “I’m sorry I don’t want to do this anymore here take it please don’t kill me”?
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Why would you give your money to a country executing children for existing?
Was sent there by my employer, so not my money
could you have refused?
Of course, you can refuse anything your voluntary employer asks you to do! 😉
The amount of white-knights with colonial mindsets in this comment section is insane. Singapore is an Asian country, you’ll need an objective moral foundation in order to condemn them for this
There’s no such thing as objective morality. At some fundamental level you’re just deciding who benefits from your moral compass and who doesn’t.
If objective morality isn’t real, the only reason you’ll have to condemn this is that it goes against your culture. Which is cultural supremacy to some degree
Objective morality isn’t real. If it were, you’d be able to prove it.
And it’s difficult to argue, coming from a deeply red area of the US that I’m coming from a culture that vilifies the death penalty.
The closest you’ll ever get to an objective moral truth is that you’re free to believe any fucking thing you want, but your rights stop at you. Imposing your beliefs on another living being is supremacy.
If God is real, then Objective Morality is real. If white society wishes to secularise, they have to realise that they no longer have a justification to tell other cultures what to do.
Ok.
God isn’t real. If a being of infinite power does exist, it is apathetic, ignorant, or cruel.
If the source of your objective morality is a fairy tale, you have no basis for claiming your morality is objective, let alone accurate.
How do you define cruelty without God being real? How can you know for sure that God is apathetic or ignorant?
If there is no basis for objective morality at all, we have no grounds to condemn other cultures for actions that go against our culture. I would condemn cruelty happening abroad because I believe everyone is made in the image of God, and God’s commandment for all of Humanity was to love one and other. If God isn’t real, then why should I care what happens in other countries, if the only morality I have is based on my white, western culture?
If there is no God, humans are just lumps of cells anyway, not too far removed from plants and animals. So why would it be my business what is going on abroad?
How do you define cruelty without God being real?
Pretty simply, do you require help knowing the difference between what is cruel and what is not? You might need psychiatric help my guy
How can you know for sure that God is apathetic or ignorant?
Because of the suffering of innocents. Any all powerful creature that allows suffering on the scale we are familiar with either doesn’t know about it, and is thus ignorant, or doesn’t care, and is thus apathetic. Perhaps this creature both knows and cares, in which case it is either powerless to stop it, and therefore not all powerful, or it is a cruel being, and not one by which to set your moral compass.
If there is no basis for objective morality at all,
There isn’t. Morality is a supposition.
we have no grounds to condemn other cultures for actions that go against our culture.
This relies on a number of assumptions which are mostly wrong. Am I condemning an entire culture or the actions of a few people? Do the people of that culture think this is a good idea? Are there members of that group that condemn this? Are those members represented? Is the practice being condemned harmful?
I would condemn cruelty happening abroad because I believe everyone is made in the image of God, and God’s commandment for all of Humanity was to love one and other. If God isn’t real, then why should I care what happens in other countries, if the only morality I have is based on my white, western culture?
So you require someone else to tell you what is right and what is not? Are you incapable of independent thought? Are you devoid of compassion and empathy?
An empathetic person would abhor the suffering of others without divine intervention.
Should God appear to you and demand you sacrifice your eldest son, would you begin sharpening your knife?
If there is no God, humans are just lumps of cells anyway, not too far removed from plants and animals.
We are not removed greatly from animals no. We are animals. We’re pretty far removed from plants though.
So why would it be my business what is going on abroad
Empathy my guy. I was kind of kidding before but now I’m actually concerned you lack basic emotional skills that are natural and innate to most people. That’s definitionally psychopathy, you might want to look in to that.
I have an objective moral foundation and I condemn them for this
Good.
Objective moral foundation: capital punishment is bad.
The objective moral foundation would also says everyone should deserve to live, yet all the capitalist countries are punishing those who can’t work.
Let’s not cast stones from a glass house
You’ll need to justify it on something though
I actually don’t. It is fundamental enough that I can take it as an axiom. If you want to claim its negation, the burden of the argument is on you, so go ahead and make the case against it.
Fundamental on what?
I take it to be self evident. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom
