- cross-posted to:
- lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world
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I’m with you on this, but i am genuine curious, what kind of advantage does it bring? You still have to unload the dishwasher, you can close the blinds with 1 button when you’re at home. My temperature control has a sensors outside to check how much heating i need.
Literally i want examples of where this makes life easier?
Well that’s the thing. You design around your needs.
We have leak sensors on the brew fridge downstairs and behind the washing machine so we catch issues before they become floods. Door sensors to assuage anxiety and handle ADHD. Smart sockets so we can turn on things like rope lights in the subfloor with a button we can place anywhere we like rather than groping twelve feet into the spider-filled space to find the GPO. A button where every single function is set to turn the fan on so the hubs can roll over and slap it on his bedside table when he wakes up too hot instead of reaching behind the fan half asleep and fumbling for knobs. A tea button so we don’t forget the tea we have steeping. Tank overflow system that overrides the daily timer and pumps to a secondary reservoir system to maximise capture in high rainfall. Stuff like that
The speaker that plays “it’s raining men” when his lordship comes home and the garage door sensors that scream “what is WRONG with you people???” If opened at 3am is just me having fun with it though
It’s good if you have pets, being able to both keep an eye and control certain parts of the house for their benefit when you’re not there.
There’s also the first world problem of being too cold in bed but the thermostat is downstairs.
We have motorised shutters, my next plan is to tie in a daylight sensor so we can shut them at night and they open up a bit at dawn so the cats can sun themselves. At the moment we just have them open all the time, i mislike that.
Non-IT people don’t find much use in these things either. There’s a brief futurism novelty that wears off. The devices sit unused until they inevitably break or go obsolete. Or they give up using out of frustration. Not because they’re tech illiterate. Because they realize the thing didn’t need to be IOT.
I work in cyber security and I have lots of smart home things. I also assume my network’s being compromised at all times and keep anything really important on paper in a safe.
swap out those mechanicals windows for mechanical linux and then we’ll talk
I am more of a hydraulic Linux person myself
You must feel compressed.
Likely not, the whole point of hydraulics is that the fluid is non-compressible!
That’s pneumatic Linux, though.
Actually it’s GNUmatic Linux.
I use Arch BTW.
Like just huge arches instead of windows or even doors, Arch is all you need.
I thought Emacs is all you need?
Real programmers use memes to program the machines of the world.
Tfw you come to your first day of work in critical infrastructure to maintain drivers and highly critical network applications and they’re all written in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOLCODE
Incorrect, you need
According to this documentary, you’re wrong!
I never thought about how a physical arch relates to physical windows. Interesting.
My house too. I don’t work in IT, I just can’t afford any of this.
Smart TV is the only one I’ve really managed to avoid. Every TV is smart at this point
Doesn’t mean it needs Internet access tho
Doesn’t mean it needs Internet access tho
Annoyingly, some models won’t let you get through the initial setup menu unless you let it connect.
Smart TV companies hate this one simple trick!
Pack the TV up in the original box and take it back for a full refund. And tell them why.
The fact these companies can release a $200 router or a $1000 smartphone and completely stop all security updates after only a few years is insane.
Exactly why WAPs, Switches, Firewalls, and Modems should all be separate devices
There’s also a big company called Ubiquiti that sells overly expensive trash.
Their switches don’t even mirror more than a single port.
It should be regulated similar to how cars are regulated - with mandatory service and spare parts for many years.
Cars aren’t exactly a good example on how to curb enshittification, as the car industry pioneered enshittification and found a way around regulations every time so far. Some regulations are even actively aiding further enshittification, as they require a truckload of electronics with software that is entirely under the manufacturer’s control.
Yeah but, at least in my country, cars can’t be on the road (which would be the internet in this case), without passing the periodic inspection.
While that might be so, I can still buy original spare parts for my 25 years old car and I could still service it at official repair shop if I wanted to.
The “official repair shop” isn’t the issue.
It would be third party repair shops. And amazingly you can.
Right to repair has done some good in this world
They have not found a way around it every time.
They all have seat belts
They all have ODB2 ports
In Spanish, we have a saying: “En casa de herrero, cuchara de palo”.
A rough translation would be “in the blacksmith’s house you’ll find wood spoons”. It’s not a new thing, it’s been like that since ancient times.Is that the same thing? The impression I get is that OPs post is about the IT worker actively distrusting smart tech. While I assume your example is more that the blacksmith doesn’t bother with making metal spoons for himself and using what ever he had already, which would be more comparable to a network engineer still using the ISPs shitty router.
We use it when, for any reason, a person who would could easily use something related to their field, doesn’t use it. What it means is that if someone who could be using something because they know how it works, isn’t using it, there must be a reason.
Ahh, the impression I got is that one makes it sound like they are avoiding it because they can’t be bothered to while the other actively avoids it because its bad.
I think that is the most “correct” interpretation of it. Maybe they’re saying that it’s been bent over time.
We have a similar saying in Denmark, something like “shoemakers kids always have holes in their shoes” but in this case it’s more about that the people in the profession don’t prioritize their own craft. I’ve seen this with electricians where whole house is done but electrical sockets aren’t installed but for IT I think it’s more about distrust towards developers (takes one to know one)
Wooden spoons are better for cooking with cast iron pots and pans, which a blacksmith, being knowledgeable about metal, would be vey aware of.
Just as the it person is way more aware of the pitfalls of smart tech than your average person
Sure but what us the downside? It us a huge field with everything from local to requiring the cloud. You can’t blanket it all together.
I thought it was just teflon that is too weak to handle metal tools.
Metal tools also scrape the bottom lining that forms over time off, which is a big no no when cooking with cast iron.
Are you sure? I’ve often heard chainmail recommended to clean cast iron.
P sure (but not entirely) that thats for when you purposely want to remove the lining, fx for resale, to make it look brand new
Havent personally heard chainmail reccomended tho, mostly heard of steel sponges, chainmail sounds way cooler tho lol
Depends how hard you scrape. Steel sponges with a lot of force will take you down to metal, chainmail might work nicely for cleaning stuck on food without damaging the coating too much but I haven’t used it.
Metal tools you need to really scrape at it to remove the coating, I don’t think it is something you could do by mistake.
The seasoning? I seriously doubt that. People seem to think cast iron is more vulnerable than it is. You can wash it, too, just dry it off after.
Whatever man, the wooden spoons taste better i guess, that’s the reason now
“The cobbler’s kids have no shoes” in English.
But this guy is saying he doesn’t trust technology not to spy or be vulnerable.
That ks for sharing this, this is fascinating.
Maybe the underlying rule is: the more you know about something, the more you are aware of its flaws, making the alternatives you know less about more attractive?
Yeah but I doubt that saying has ever been used to mean the blacksmith thinks metal spoons are bad. Right?
It’s worth sharing but this post is more about the software engineer knows how much shit is spying on you.
It implies worse though, doesn’t have to be bad. Worse gets deprecated just the same.
i’ve worked with highly competent programmes and sysadmins whose houses are entirely connected. they do exist.
I work in IT, been a software developer for decades.
I have a full on smart home, all the smart tech you can imagine. All connected and running locally via home assistant.
Smart tech isn’t bad, shitty tech is.
I’m gonna guess that you put a decent amount of time into figuring out a good set of smart home products and maybe even put some effort into looking up which products play well together and what configurations are ideal.
And that’s great if you enjoy shopping for, setting up and maintaining all those toys. But we all know there is too much shitty tech out there to think that it’s a good idea to grab a bunch of smart home stuff at Best Buy one afternoon and just plug it all in and call it good.
I think the thing is, folks in tech are less likely to be cool with, for example, exposing their door locks on the internet without doing a decent amount of due diligence. You have to want it enough to put in the work to make sure you have something that you can feel is secure, smooth operating and meets your personal privacy expectations. It kinda has to be a minor hobby. Which is cool if you happen to enjoy it or get enough joy from the result to make it worthwhile.
For me, I have enough hobbies and pastimes. I’ll put in the effort when the payoff is high, like for a home media server. But there’s no way in hell I’m signing up for future chores and headaches just so I can control my window curtains from my phone.
Nope ZigBee or zwave cool. Not that hard. Next work offline with home assistant OK.
Ditto. A smart home that can operate even if the Internet is offline was one of my core goals setting this up. And save for a few exceptions, I accomplished it. It’s so jarring now to go on vacation and not have all this automation.
This is exactly the line of thought I think people aren’t seeing as the gap. Y’all are too comfortable expecting the internet to be on 24/7. Or the power, for that matter.
If Cloudflare shits the bed again, are your lights stuck on or off? Can you not turn up the heat? We’re in a period of history where things will bet worse, not better. The last thing I want is “error: can’t connect to internet” being why you can’t turn the things you can touch in your house on and off. I get it if you’ve managed to do the work to have it all locally hosted, but just as-is seems like a bet against one’s self.
When the power is off chances are that whatever is integrated is degraded anyway. And for actuators just choose some that fail gracefully and allow manual handling. For the rest use HA as much as possible, favour local integrations with no cloud dependencies… and when there are dependencies than make sure the override is available physically (looking at my vaillant HP). Then stack UPSes or even better home grade batteries (my next endeavour) and have backup connectivity to internet and you’re a peachy as can be.
The key thing is you have exclusive root access to all of it and spend time on admin.
“Why are you sitting in the dark?”
“AWS is down 😞”
Same for me. I don’t really like to expose my home and I don’t understand how people are so eager to plug in shady WiFi stuff into their network. I’ve got one “smart” device with WiFi connectivity I’ve allowed to connect to my network, but I’ve disallowed going online and I’ve put it into a different vlan.
Friend of mine: “let’s set up a camera in our bedroom to check on on the dog when we’re away.”
The one thing I will never use a smart device for is my door lock. I don’t understand how tech literate people really trust that.
I was considering a smart lock for my (armored) front door, but just because there are some locks manufactured here in Italy that can be set to be controlled by external contacts.
Which means I could use and ESP or similar with esphome, now they also support wired, ethernet ones.
That’s way more secure than the shitty lock I have now, I’ve seen videos of people picking that with a decoder device in 30 seconds.Locks are not secure anyway and even if it is the most secure lock ever built may I present a window. Most break ins at least when I did home alarms where smash window right beside door and unlock it.
True as well, but a broken window or a lockpick my neighbors might be interested in.
I have a couple WiFi devices for smart home like some TVs and thermostat. All blocked from WAN access and used for local control.
as a hardware iot security person, that is possible but too much attack surface to manage
ZigBee, Z-wave and Thread have virtually 0 attack surface from an IoT perspective, and even then what are they gonna do, do radio hacking to turn off and on my lights? It’s not like they can be used in a botnet.
Locks is a bit more risky as an endeavor, but again, it’s probably easier to pick the lock than hack it… Actually with the quality of many smart locks, smashing them is easier still.Smart TVs are way more problematic devices for example, as soon as they stop receiving updates, you have a bunch of high-speed internet connected devices with unresolved exploits just sitting there waiting for the right chance.
Hear hear.
I feel the meme in the post is created by someone pseudoilliterate in technology. But I can guaranty you they have a smart TV connected to the same WiFi as all their computers and maybe a nas or home server.
Setting up zwave or ZigBee networks is not an attack vector.
ive used smart light bulbs in a botnet before. and if you do a teardown on one of those locks you can probably get the firmware and uart to get the unlock function which you could use theoretically to unlock every single one
Good, solid state tech should last basically forever unless something wild happens.
I agree when it comes to most “smart” home devices. However, I wired an ESP32 to my heat pump for remote control and automation, which has been absolutely fantastic. Also, I use a ton of ZigBee and zwave, since those are not “smart” by themselves and are local-only.
It’s the cloud bullshit that always breaks and spies on users that I hate.
Yeah home built and programmed smart devices are the way to go. I’m addicted to the rush of making dumb appliances automated.
The smartphone controlled aircon for $150 extra? Slap a $4 Esp in that. $400 to get sleek control of your central heating? $4 Esp. Turn on the ice maker on the commute home? You guessed it, $4 Esp.
I wanted to do ESPify my fume hood for some time now, but I don’t really know where to start. Do you have some website/howto for me to get started? To be honest, I don’t really care about smarting up the actual extraction part. I just want to turn on and off the lights without finding the non-illuminated touch button on the black glass. Who designs crap like that?
You need electrical experience, I wouldn’t recommend anyone to work with high voltages unless they knew what they were doing. The method depends on the device, every one is different. For the aircon unit the esp is an internal remote, so I spent time decoding that model’s IR codes and building a platform for reliable control via home assistant. I have fans around the house that use mains voltage motors with 3 speeds, those got an interlocked 3 channel relay board. The ice maker used digital logic, so the esp sits between the control board and the rest and intercepts button presses to keep track of state and the injects its own commands for remote control(not my work). If you are lucky there will be a guide on the internet you can apply to your specific device, otherwise you’ll have to work the project out solo from smaller guides.
I just wanted to interfere with the button board, I’d guess this will run on 3.3 or 5 volts. Simulate the touch events so to speak.
Yeah so you’d probably just be grounding the positive side of the button momentarily. I’m pretty sure I did that with a ducted heater remote once, if it’s 3.3 you can just attach it to a pin from your board, then send the pin low to press. 5v you might want a level shifter in between. Have you used esphome before/do you have home assistant? Then you can automate the press to a motion sensor or widget on your phone.
Yes, and I’m tinkering all the time. I’d get in with my multimeter and check the voltage first anyways.
Where the hell are you getting 4 ESP. And no its not good for everything. I buy zwave switches and water sensors.
Not the previous poster.
A simple ESP8266 module from AliExpress is less than $4 (an ESP12F module - which is the FCC certified one with most I/O ports available - is $2), can be programmed with Arduino, has WiFi and that is more than enough for wireless home automation peripherals that are not supposed to do lots of processing (it will still easilly fit a REST interface for automated control and even a web interface for user control alongside it).
That said, in order to power it unless you can somehow draw 3.3v from the device it’s attached to, you actually need more parts and that’ll add up to more than $4 unless you’re doing it with batteries (and design and assemble your own voltage regulator circuit which is not that hard and is cheap, or maybe get a slightly more expensive ESP module that comes with voltage regulation) - this works fine if your device sleeps most of the time and just wakes up once in a while to check some data from a server holding instructions for it. For an always one device, best IMHO to use a 3.3V wall power adaptor, which will cost at least $6 from AliExpress.
The power considerations apply exactly the same for ESP32s.
$2 is a normal price on Aliexpress for an Esp32 C3 super mini, $4 is almost expensive
Home Assistant 💯
At first I read “heat pump” as “heart pump” and I thought “what is this crazy fucker doing?”
🔊Hyper-Spoiler.mp3
This isn’t humor, and most tech people have some of this shit. 3/10.
Ive been gifted a few IoT things over the years. They stay on their own network / VLAN or are unplugged entierly when not in use. The meme about keeping the firearm near the one thing I cant reasonably make myself is not innacurate. Tech workers are aware of the vulnerabilities and issues with cheap insecure IoT nonsense. As part of one of my nerds cyber security learning we hacked a smart cat feeder to snoop on wireless networks and allow a back door (we had their permission, it was a gift that was unneeded so they let us take it apart).
Edit: also a ton of that junk phones back to AWS, and usually pretty lazilly, if your learning pen testing or cyber security its a fun exercise to get this cheap crap and find out how it works.
Cool but you’re not even close to ‘most tech people’.
Guys, gals, non binary pals; I can’t emphasize this enough. The average tech worker Isn’t some Linux guru working for a VC sending pics of their thigh highs. It’s a middle aged millennial with kids who just wants his shit to work.
Some users here: “I haven’t had a need for this tech, others should not use it.” Caveman grunts
The dev I know who’s most into home automation using cloud services has also fallen the hardest for “AI will build all systems and nothing will go wrong with that”. Honestly, I should become a cyber criminal in this climate.
“no smart home crap” except smart home “crap” can be quite secure today… but please go on.
(80% of my smart home “crap” runs firmware I compiled, communicates only with a local server and have no internet access)
I already do that crap all day at work. The last thing I want to do is do it to my coffee maker or something.
That’s exactly what I want to do! I saw a post some years ago, someone had connected a ~ESP32 (or the like) to their coffee maker, connected it to the WiFi and made an app to remote controll it.
I want to do something similar. Prepp the coffee in the evening, set a time for the machine to start and then have fresh coffee when I wake up. I realise that I could just do all of this and just press the button when I wake up instead, but the idea of this makes me happy.
If I want coffee in the morning I just fill my French press the night before with cold water.
And they’ve made drip coffee makers with timers for decades. No WiFi needed.
The whole point is to make it because I want to. As I said, I can just prepare my MoccaMaster the day before and the coffee will be one button press away in the morning.
