If by “complicates… basic PC ownership” they mean “infringes on your property rights as a computer owner,” then they’re finally catching on to what I’ve been saying for damn near a decade.
You should not accept having an abusive relationship with your operating system, and that’s what Windows has been since at least 8 (when they started infecting it with “telemetry”), if not earlier. Have some goddamn self-respect, people! Kick Microsoft to the curb!
Also win8: Hey, would you like NOT having a desktop? We’ve got tiles now!
Google onboarding on Android…
The key difference is that there are credible alternatives in the PC OS space. If I could ditch Android/iOS without major pain, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
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Root and use custom roms.
Only works if your device has an unlockable bootloader, and most phones nowadays are completely locked down.
That’s the direction that many manufacturers are trying to push PCs as well.
Most but not all. If someone cares THAT much about making a free account and telemetry, a few minutes on XDA won’t hurt their schedule.
alas, most models of android phones don’t have support from the custom roms that currently exist
If, the roms exist, there’s clearly hardware for them…
And what should you suggest we should do with the ones that don’t? Bury them all at some landfill?
Well, they were born e-waste, so yea. If the consumer is in middle of the lake of information, but refuses to drink anything but bottled corpo propaganda and dies from dehydration…
Chris Titus’ windows utility will decrapify Windows quite a bit, including removing telemetry, copilot and much more stuff for those unable/unwilling to move to Linux.
For those a bit more adventurous he provides a Microwin install image creator that tweaks a standard ISO to be as light as possible, removing as much crap as possible during install, making install un atended, and creating a local account.
I’m in the process of getting my kids their first PC this Christmas. They’ll both get a mini-PC, with severely restricted Internet access. I’m actually thinking about just letting them connect to the home server where I’d mock the Web sites I pick for them. For this reason, Win11 with its online account requirement is automatically excluded from consideration. I wated to give them Mint anyway, but this was the argument that convinced my wife.
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My kids’ devices are blocked from internet access in my OpenWRT firewall and I run a Squid proxy on my server with an allowlist of domains they can access.
I still have an unused, boxed WRT-54G. Granted, it’s only 802.11b/g, but good enough for casual browsing, and I have experience setting up OpenWRT there. Thanks for helping me remember; I’ll use that for the kids.
Smart move, with the brain rot cancer that internet has become these days, it’s best to keep your kids away from it until their brains finish developing a bit
Mocking up whole websites seems like a pain. With a Pihole, you can create different service groups for computers and apply a whitelist to just their machines. Plus you get adblocking too!
Yeah, could also have two Pi-Hole instances. One is network wide and block ads for everyone, and the other is the DNS the kids PCs use, set with a white list of approved sites only. You can set Pi-hole to block everything (set * as the a RegEx filter) and then add domains to the white list to be allowed through.
Groups is probably more efficient but two instances could be offer more options/nuance on how you run things.
I tried pi-hole, but it turned in a real pain, trying to set it up for normal use, plus two WFH offices. I may give it another try, when I feel more patient.
The idea of mocking websites came from talking to other parents from my kids’ school. I was thinking about some form of a local “internet” for our neighbourhood for all the kids. Heavily curated, a mix of mock sites (like the full download of Wikipedia), news through RSS, moderated message boards, etc. I don’t think it’s an original idea given the current state of the Internet, so at this stage I’m just reading up on design best practices.
In the past, I’ve used Adguard Home, and I liked it. When I tried to my Adguard server as the DNS for my router, though, my WFH corporate VPN wouldn’t connect, so there’s that. Granted, I was using it to remove ads, but people seem to like it for parental controls too.
Lol I assumed OP meant mock as in “You want to go to tiktok? What a horrible site. You have bad taste.”
You should do that as well, to protect the kids from those brain rot slop websites
I saw a deal for a pair of mini PCs with decent specs on eBay right after I got my annual bonus, so I jumped on it because I want to do the same thing for my kids. May be jumping the gun a bit…my son just learned the alphabet (uppercase only) and my daughter just learned how to flop off the couch head-first.
It’s a hell of a moment when they can out perform their parents, isn’t it?
My wife taught my son English uppercase letters, so I’ve been teaching him Greek lowercases. I can’t help but feel proud every time he says “pi”
…but who taught her to flop off the couch? That sounds like an aunt or uncle.
She independently discovered it haha. I sit her down on the couch next to me while I’m working, and she constantly flops over. It drives me nuts! I would let her just do her thing, but she’s got pretty bad reflux and even just a minute or two of tummy time within like 2 hours of having a bottle will make her ralph.
The other day, I had to get up for a minute or two, and I left her on the couch. My better judgment kicked in and I pushed an ottoman next to the couch to block the space she usually tries to launch into. This is what I came back to see:
My kids are a little older - just learned to read without sounding off the words - so I need to introduce parental controls. But you may see your purchase as an investment: a year from now, the hardware may be worth twice as much.
That’s the main reason I jumped on them. I’ve seen an increasing trend of people selling old computers with the RAM and HDDs taken out
You should keep an eye on Gnome. Their recent release, Gnome 50, just introduced parental controls to limit access to programs and they’re looking to implement website access as well.
I don’t like Gnome, but my kid’s first PC will have Gnome on it now because of these new features, which I greatly appreciate
Just put 3.1 on those and let them play solitaire to their hearts content.
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Windows 95 with the Microsoft Entertainment Pack
I have a working emachines desktop with Win98. They’ll pry it off my cold, dead hands…
You mean the same people who have no problem setting up an android/gmail or ios/apple account on their phones? Talk about double standards.
There’s a certain value gained from those. Contacts/apps/photos sync and backup. And atleast on Android, you can skip it and use regardless.
This is about MS making the UX worse without any user benefits.
Do you have a few minutes to talk about our Lord and Saviour, Linus Torvalds?
a few years ago I had a really stupid issue with my laptop. about twice a year, for whatever reason, Windows 11 decided my internal wifi card wasn’t worth existing and would just wipe it off the face of the earth. Just completely remove it, delete the drivers, everything. hard resetting the laptop didn’t work, physically unplugging and replugging the card back in didn’t work, manually installing the drivers didn’t work. the ONLY way Windows would accept the card again was on a fresh OS install. So twice a year, like clockwork, i’d have to do that except the last time I couldn’t because I needed an MS account. well I couldn’t get online. for whatever reason it wouldn’t allow me to connect to wifi and I didn’t have access to an eithernet connection. So I gave up and finally decided to give this Linux thing a try. Installed Mint within 15min.
The added bonus of installing Linux on the laptop was it suddenly brought my battery back to life. on Windows I MAYBE got 30min out of a full charge. On Linux with a WM like Niri it’s now a few hours. Linux also made me fall in love with the PC again. Now I’m on NixOS and i just love configuring my system or doing more dev work with ease thanks to nixshells.
Praise be!
Linux also made me love computing again!! So fun actually knowing your machine and being totally free to break it completely.
The best thing about breaking it is having a chance to set it up again more efficiently
Only if you have a few minuets to talk about our Lord and Savoir Theo de Raadt
I ran into my first people doing that for Jesus in many years last weekend. Was so bizarre. They just approached me randomly on the street.
Filthy heretics!
No, im sorry I dont have time for that, but have you heard of Linus Torvalds?
I always have time to talk about The Admin. Should I make some
teacoffee to sip as we talk?Milk and sugar please.
Ha, “The Admin” brought to mind something I haven’t thought about in years…
Ohh…
I need to find these books.
Thank you.
Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC is supported until 2032 and free to activate.
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I play heavily modded games and it’s a hassle to make some of them work in Linux. Ltsc helps me give some time until modding in Linux gets better support.
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It delays the problem for six more years, and it also gives me the satisfaction of
piratingtesting the only decent version of Windows free of Microslop bloat and vibe coded react.deleted by creator
the only decent version of Windows
Please stop romanticising Win 10 just because it’s less shitty than 11. There is no decent Windows.
Reminder: Win 10 introduced
- mandatory telemetry (you can only choose between some telemetry and firehose telemetry)
- a built-in keylogger
- built-in advertising
- aggressive nag screens containing dark patterns trying to trick users into “upgrading”
The last good Windows was Windows 98
For people with a BSOD fetish? Definitely!
Don’t yuck my yum
I’m not. It’s just… why can’t you play with penguins like the other boys?
Reminder that they backported the Windows 10 telemetry to Windows 7 as well.
Yup. That’s what made me ditch Win 7 long before EOL and switch to Linux. Been here for ten years now. Life’s good. 🌱
It gives us 6 years to grow the Linux user base so that software devs, game devs, etc. make their products with Linux specifically in mind instead of creating poor ports or excluding the OS entirely.
Linux adoption is only going up.
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It gives you 6 years to transition to a better OS. Or to become CEO of Microslop and improve things.
It’s honestly great, even for me who only boot into windows once every few months.
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Great in the sense I don’t have to bother for 6 years for a partition I will use less than 24 hours over that period of time haha.
So far I’ve used it to scan once (for some reason that day skan decided to not work) and to make a windows install USB for my SO.
I tried Expedition 33 thinking performance issues were a Linux thing by no, it’s just like that.
So it’s a long term unlikely to be used OS, and for that long support is great.
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Actually, one more use case is my SO. Can’t/won’t use Linux, and I’m not fighting. But needs an up to date OS on the ancient lappet laptop, so 10 IOT it is.
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But who needs 6 years of transition?
I’m hoping someone manages to make surface pro’s fully compatible with linux in that time… (or that something that’s compatible and serves SPs purpose becomes available)
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Gives 6 more years for Adobe and my online games to start supporting Linux D: (or the Adobe alternatives to become more suitable for professional use)
I can’t help you with the games. You could vote with your wallet and just not play those specific ones. Start hitting that backlog of games you got on sale and never opened.
Regarding Adobe suite in a professional manner, I’m pretty sure they work on MacOS.
You always have choices. They may not be perfect but they do exist nonetheless. These companies will never stop being invasive if users keep giving in. Until “number go down” in board meetings, nothing changes.
You could vote with your wallet and just not play those specific ones.
Oh I’m not paying for them, but still one of my main daily drivers is Genshin, and I haven’t found such an enjoyable open world exploration in any other game I’ve tried. (I’m PC-only so haven’t tried Breath of the Wild.)
Regarding Adobe suite in a professional manner, I’m pretty sure they work on MacOS.
I would never touch a Mac, it’s way more of a walled garden than Windows.
Also I was talking about Adobe alternatives like Inkscape for Illustrator or Scribus for InDesign. From what I’ve read they are really not there yet. (Tried Inkscape a few times, but the UI is so unintuitive for my brain used to Adobe’s UI/workflow 😭)
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Thanks, I’ll check out Where Winds Meet! :)
(Edit: according to their Steam page they use genAI dialogue and art, so that’s a pass :/ )
Dunno about current adobes, but don’t they also run fine via wine? Have only one single tool so far that makes a bit trouble (mediamonkey).
From the reports I see on WineHQ, they are all various levels of broken, though the last versions tested were from 2024.
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Oh I’m not paying for them, but still one of my main daily drivers is Genshin, and I haven’t found such an enjoyable open world exploration in any other game I’ve tried.
Genshin Impact works on Linux: https://lutris.net/games/genshin-impact/
(I’m PC-only so haven’t tried Breath of the Wild.)
I’m Linux only and I’ve played Breath of the Wilds (works on Windows too).
Go to your favorite torrent site (1337x to) and search for Breath of the Wild. It’ll be packaged with the emulator so you don’t need to do anything. It’s a better experience, higher framerate, antialiasing, 4k upscaling and reverse tonemapping (Windows calls this autoHDR) (and basically anything that you can do with ReShade)
Also I was talking about Adobe alternatives like Inkscape for Illustrator or Scribus for InDesign. From what I’ve read they are really not there yet. (Tried Inkscape a few times, but the UI is so unintuitive for my brain used to Adobe’s UI/workflow 😭)
A few months ago someone made a patch which makes the Adobe CC 2021 and 2025 installer work in Wine.
Come on in, the Linux water is fine :)
Genshin is playable on Linux? I play it on my Steam Deck.
Thanks, that’s good to know! From what I’ve read a few months ago when I last looked into it, it only worked with a fan-made launcher that posed a ban risk and also broke every few updates.
I just add the official launcher as a non-steam game and ran through the install as normal.
Granted I haven’t done it in a couple of months, so not sure if that method still works…but I don’t see why not
I always thought of Macs as not a good value before, but nowadays for laptops at least they seem to be relatively good.
I still find them annoyingly unintuitive, but that’s probably due to lack of experience. At least they come with some (old) version of bash and support standard stuff like ssh out of the box from my understanding.
Was it a hoax that Microsoft came after Massgrave?
LTSC is pretty much what Windows should be. And MS hates people are using it so it means it’s the best choice.
If we somehow could run windows in a container and not allow it network access.
correct me if My memory is wrong but I seem to remember something like this happening with Windows 10 and then someone came up with a way to install without logging in first but I’ve never seen a Windows 10 installation that didn’t have a Microsoft user logged into it
To this day, you can still create local accounts at setup
I think there’s generally always been some hackish way around, and the hackish way frequently changes between releases of installation media.
Also, when Windows Update deploys certain things, if you have a system that did this, you may get a full screen thing telling you to set up a microsoft account roughly “for your own good”. Even when you bypass that, the start menu and notification area generally are eager to suggest hooking your system up to a microsoft account.
They decided that since Android can so aggressively push Google accounts, they should get the same scheme going, but Microsoft has this pesky pre-always-online history of being an offline capable OS.
At the moment if you create your installation media with Rufus it can just do it. A simple checkbox before you write to your USB drive overrides the Microsoft account requirement and even allows you to create a local account with a specific name in advance. Yes, even for the current versions of Windows which are full of the latest bullshit, and in which Microsoft claim they have “removed” the workarounds. It’s always been the easiest way.
silly me making registry entries and edits to remove their bullshit from the OS.
Well, to be fair you still want to do that to remove/disable some of the other bullshit aspects. Don’t worry, you’ll still have regedit on speed dial if you want to retain any type of sanity.
I have never used a Windows machine with a Microsoft account for my own personal use, only if it was somebody else’s PC that already had it. I just keep it disconnected from the internet during setup and it eventually gives me the option to not use it with a Microsoft account.
There is a command to disable the account setup too but I have only used that once. The disconnecting from the internet trick works for me.
I mostly use GNU/Linux for my own use but on the rare occasion I setup Windows for someone else or need to use it, I just disconnect it / don’t connect it to the internet before setup.
Edit:
The reason bypassing the forced account with up to date Windows 11 was still so easy for me is likely because I used the Pro edition and possibly may have used the setup for work feature when I installed it recently.
Pretty sure they blocked that no internet option too, though Rufus has a checkbox to re-enable it.
First last and only time I ever tried to get a microsloth account, they fucked up my password selection and basically locked me out of my system wherein resided my steam account, emulation, and music libraries and all of my non steam games. Never ever did that again
To people still on Windows 11 go back to Windows 10 some way somehow if you really are set on not using Linux for whatever reason
I’m sure the fact that the Steam Hardware Survey just hit 5.33% Linux has absolutely NOTHING to do with Microsoft’s continued pants-on-head stupid and anti-consumer approach to things.
Windows 10 kept throwing up full screen ads for whatever bullshit they were trying to get me to sign up for while also telling me my computer wasn’t good enough for Windows 11.
And that’s how I ended up with Mint on my desktop and laptop a couple months ago.
I have to use Windows for work, but my personal machines are Linux and macOS at this point, and I have zero intention of buying another windows license.
Just moved my parents onto Mint, they were hesitant at first but now doing great. MS is digging it’s own grave.
I also just replaced Windows 10 with Mint recently. I did sadly buy Windows 11 proper at some point for my new office PC, which thankfully has been okay after I turn off the copilot shit. And I’m stuck with it until a few programs get some Linux support.
But regardless, I sure won’t be buying anything more from Windows.
I’m not sure what your use cases and performance requirements are, but Windows works great in a VM.
I rarely use it, but I happened to fire it up today and after updating it I got a full screen ad to start backing up my computer to their shit.
Everyone is thinking about this wrong. MIcroslop will only do their enterprise customers dirty at the very end, when they are dropping the Windows product altogether. How do SysAdmins do Windows 11 installs at their workplace? How are we expected to provision PCs without a MS account. Select add to domain and use your router as a ‘fake’ DC and then set the settings back to normal after the install. They can not remove that method, it is absolutely required for using DCs and MS makes a shit load of money licensing DCs. You have to pay per user.
I think enterprise is the least affected.
Win11 installs are done with Autopilot. Users log in with their company MS accounts and if admins need access they log in with the LAPS account.
Enterprise moved away from local accounts even before COVID.
This is the case where I work.
Microsoft wants to kill on-prem for enterprise. Windows 11 Enterprise is a monthly subscription to your Office 365, sorry Microsoft 365, wait no Copilot 365 account. Exchange Server 2019 is the end with their subscription only version replacing it. They’re retiring Dynamics on prem to move you to the cloud.
The cloud services are parted out just right that you get almost everything you’re trying to do with one package, only to need the next level up at double the price for one little thing, or an add-on service that just so happens to need the E3 version instead of E1. Oh but you can pay twice as much again for the all-in-one bundle, it comes with everything! Expect that thing you need for regulatory compliance, that’s still extra. It’s like they studied the predatory pricing of freemium games and went “we can do better than that”
Selling you an OS once is of no interest to them. Monthly charges? Better but still not enough. All of your data flowing through their systems, ripe for harvesting and vendor lock-in? That’s the good stuff.
Windows 11 has given me so many headaches at work I have genuinely explored moving the entire corporate environment to Linux. Unfortunately it would be a massive multi-year operation that would not bring the amount of benefits required to get such a thing greenlighted. But simply the fact that I, and many peers, took a good hard look at it tells you just how incredibly shit Windows 11 is. It’s a fucking nightmare on so many levels, it’s ridiculous.
They know that, that’s why they do it… And that’s why you should go ahead with it…
Yeah I’m in a (primarily) Windows shop too, but we have many Linux servers that I manage and maintain. My DD at home is CachyOS, and I’m very familiar with management of a fleet of Ubuntu servers. I’ve already told the guys on my team I’m ready to just switch at work too. Might cause me some management issues at times though because of needing Windows Server management tools (e.g. RSAT), but I suppose I could jump box that.
