Democracy is when the majority of voters hate the government and the greater that majority is the more democratic it is.
I have seen this said unironically.
We already understand that, the point is that bourgeois democracy is a farce, as it leads to deeply unpopular figures getting elected. Socialist democracy is necessary.
With these numbers, they should be holding new elections.
Though I do agree,
the opinion numbers should be put side at side with election numbers
to showcase how little these politicians care about approval rates once in power.
Actually, in a multi party system, it is. If you only have two, or one political flavour you’ll get different results.
The number of parties has fuck all to do with how democratic a particular system is. It’s whose interests the parties represent that matters. In capitalist societies, parties serve the interests of the ruling capital owning class, and the working majority simply gets to pick which member of the exploiting class will rule over them and repress them.
The number of parties influences the percentual result.
You could say that in a 51/49 outcome 49% of the people isn’t represented but it’s still democratic.
I’m Belgian. We hold the world record in government foundations. I know how small percentages work and am pretty sure it’s democracy at work.
Do I like it? Not really, but it still democracy.
Pluralism has nothing to do with whether or not the will of the people is accurately reflected. One party states often have higher democratic representation because the people can more directly influence policy.
Last elections in Poland seen a whooping 17 parties and over 40 independents elected to sejm. However, you could not find a single socialist among them, not to mention communist, all 17 parties and over 40 independents are representing various flavours of liberalism
Excellent point to make. Pluralism isn’t bad in every case, though it can lead to factionalism of course, but the idea that it’s democratic itself is horribly wrong.
Sure. But, the Polish people seem to be happy with a far right representation.
I really don’t care about left or right. I’ve been working with politicians the last 15 years and I’ve met socialist people on the far right and extremely liberal people on the left. The boring centrist seem to get it right more often but they don’t get elected.
I’ve met socialist people on the far right
You make no sense. Please elaborate.
Democracy is a compromise. The irony is that by representing everybody partially you’ll never represent anyone fully.
Democracy is rule by the majority, which really means in practice a country where the working classes are in control. Bourgeois “democracy” guises capitalist control in a cloak of electoralism, obscuring unpopular candidates with positive wins in the realm of capitalist controlled elections.
Dude, half of my country has been ruled by elected socialist for 70 years now. Socialists have been part of the federal government since the 2nd World War and in their prime they formed a purple government together with the liberals.
Our most liberal party is struggling to get enough votes to participate in tge elections. What you’re on about?
PTB has a decent and growing foothold in Belgium, which is fantastic, but that’s about as good as it gets in bourgeois democracy, and speaks more to the effectiveness of parties like the PTB than the effectiveness of bourgeois democracy.
In capitalist societies, parties serve the interests of the ruling capital owning class, and the working majority simply gets to pick which member of the exploiting class will rule over them and repress them.
Would you say that extend to elected representatives and from what background they come? E.g. elected representatives not coming from worker class?
One hand you do recognize it’s the class domination that is the actual problem, the root of all evil, and that a socialist injected into said government is socialist in words, not in deeds (if the class domination is not stopped),
but on the other hand every time I read a post from you, you seem to refuse to notice said class domination, blinded by their government words, in selected countries of your choice (or even acknowledge possibility of said class domination, throwing “whataboutism”).
It is hard to take you seriously.
Do give a concrete example of me ignoring class dominance. It’s hard to take people who just make up unsubstantiated personal attacks instead of engaging in honest discussion seriously. Perhaps, you should actually spend the time to learn about these countries instead of making a clown of yourself in public.
When talking about sham democracies (capitalist “democracies”):
You:
Western implementation of democracy is indeed a sham while the working class majority do deserve a genuine vote is not the contradiction you seem to think it is bro.
Last I checked, China, [cut] exist. I’m sorry that I’ve underestimated the sheer extent of your ignorance on the subject you’re opining on.
(Crossed out Vietnam, Cuba and DPRK because I do not know enough about them).
How is that not ignoring class dominance happening in those countries is beyond me (e.g. https://spectrejournal.com/one-should-not-camouflage-capitalist-and-imperialist-china-as-socialist/ , ).
Gig economy? Up and rising. Literally industrial reserve army of low paid workers whose renumeration is artificially kept low, straight from what Marx foretold. Hukou? Used for the same, rural workers migrating to urban centers where they are not registered and exploited as low wage proletariat. Ownership? Vast majority of business in China, according to China, is privately owned. 80% of urban employment, totally private businesses. Technological cartels, like Pinduoduo. Like this fuckery: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/chinese-regulator-fines-confiscates-36-billion-yuan-food-delivery-platforms-2026-04-17/
Food delivery platform was scamming people, was actively acting like a damn mafia, was combatative against the police and judiciary, and did not cooperate with the government … and was fined 1.5% of the profit. No person holding actual power in the company C-level suit suffered any consequences. This shit happened in China, as if it was USA.
How can you be so blind is beyond any rational person.
Oh wow, you really think you’ve discovered something groundbreaking here. Yup, nobody has ever heard of contradictions or commodity production under socialism. You’re the first genius to point out that private ownership and wage labor still exist in China. Truly a revelation that would make Marx weep with joy!
The fact that you think socialism means the immediate abolition of every bourgeois relation overnight tells me your understanding of the subject comes from memes and a cursory skimming of a single Wikipedia paragraph. Socialism is not some sort of an utopia handed down from the heavens. It is a transitional society that emerges from capitalism and is therefore stamped with all the birthmarks of the old society. Commodity production, wage differentials, and even the market economy persist precisely because you cannot wave a magic wand and instantaneously create abundance and perfect class consciousness.
China’s gig economy and the hukou system are real problems and nobody with a functioning brain denies that. But the difference between China and a capitalist country is that the state, led by the Communist Party representing the working class, is actively intervening to regulate, reform, and suppress these contradictions. Hokou reforms are a perfect example of this. The food delivery fine you cited, a mere 1.5% of profit, is indeed insufficient and that is a legitimate criticism. But to present that as evidence that China is simply capitalist is to ignore the fact that the government has the legal and political power to improve the situation which is precisely what they are doing. The very fact that the regulator fined them at all, that the public outcry is taken seriously, that the party openly discusses the need to break monopoly capital, is something no bourgeois state would even pretend to do.
You want a socialist society with zero exploitation, zero inequality, and zero contradictions. That is called communism, and it will take a long time to get there. In the meantime, socialist societies are messy, uneven, and full of tensions just like every human society that has ever existed. That is an argument against socialism that only a person with an utterly infantile understanding of politics and economics could make. Your gotcha list just proves you have the analytical depth of a child.
Obligatory fuck Putin and his army of deluded defenders.
Zelensky must be planning to be a permanent leader, right? How evil that would be. He might install a puppet for a while then take back control over the country and invade a neighbour without provocation because he’s a pathetic loser with a deluded sense of his country’s military capability.
Wait, am I thinking of someone else? 🤔
multi party system, you get all the shades / 32bit if you like 🙌🏻. two party system result in us vs them (see US), only black and white / 1bit system.
Ah, so the abysmal approval ratings are because other parties exist!
Coalitions? Also not sure how Kid Starver’s number is calculated, labour does have house majority.
“Ukrainian’s deserve a vote” also “democracy is a sham” - pick one, bro
Western implementation of democracy is indeed a sham while the working class majority do deserve a genuine vote is not the contradiction you seem to think it is bro.
And yet you hold up no example. Empty words
Last I checked, China, Vietnam, Cuba, and DPRK exist. I’m sorry that I’ve underestimated the sheer extent of your ignorance on the subject you’re opining on.
deleted by creator
Why not? Both China and the DPRK are democratic, even if their models of democracy are different from liberal democracy.
Oh thank you for educating me on the existence of countries. I shouldn’t have doubted your commitment to honest engagement.
Thank you for admitting you were just trolling earlier and you’re perfectly aware of what the alternatives are.
You seem to lack as much in reading comprehension as you do sense. Accusing people in the comments of trolling when you post these “memes” daily is a nice touch
aww muffin, I’d be so insulted by that if I had a shred of respect for you
You seem to have a grudge
At least he isnt winning at the polls with 140% of the vote
He’s not winning at the polls at all!
They can’t hold elections while at war. Check your own country’s constitution, it’s probably in there too.
Stopping elections for any reason is definitely democratic
Holding elections now would deprive everyone in the occupied territories of their vote.
The “occupied territories” seceded from Kiev and want nothing to do with western Ukraine.
That’s real fucking ironic.
The ‘occupied territories’ all voted to have closer ties to Russia but then the government got couped by the west, their political parties were outlawed, their populations were ethnically cleansed, AND THEN THEY VOTED TO BREAK AWAY FROM UKRAINE AND JOIN RUSSIA.
The literal point of the war is to deprive them of their vote.
Again, constitution.
Don’t seem like very democratic constitution though.
Check your own country’s constitution, it’s probably in there. And you can probably find deliberations by experts (maybe even the people who wrote your constitution) why this makes sense or not. In any case, this is not something they’re going to change while they have much bigger issues.
Check your own country’s constitution, it’s probably in there.
The ‘just literally say whatever bullshit you want’ superpower
Check your own country’s constitution, it’s probably in there.
It’s not 👍
It’s just a bourgeois democracy.
What are these percentages?
The percent of the vote they got into power by?
Lets re-display that not as a percent of merely the turnout, nor merely the electorate, but as a percentage of the entire populations they purport to represent.
They are approval ratings, not electoral results. Bourgeois democracy regularly fails to put popular candidates in power.
if they are
approval ratings
then
doesn’t hold elections
is not like the others in more than the immediately obvious way.
I didn’t make the meme, I am conveying the intent and explaining the numbers.
those are leaders of the free and democratic world right there . also why cant zelnsky dress normal
I think it’s deliberately showing: “Guys my country is literally at war right now, I won’t pretend we’re not by keeping up appearances”
The war goes so bad that president of the country somehow lost his every suit to it?
No you’re missing the point. It’s a deliberate choice to not wear “normal” attire. He looks like he could have come from the front or is prepared for physical activity. Symbolizing his country isn’t safe right now. Sure it might be a bit of an act if you’re not in a warzone right now, but at least to me that puts the picture of him / his country being at war in my mind. The fact we are talking about it proves the signal is effective.
He looks like he could have come from the front or is prepared for physical activity
But he don’t, he’s travelling from one luxury hotel to another in entire world to beg for money that are going to his pal’s golden toilets and whatnot.
Sure it might be a bit of an act if you’re not in a warzone right now, but at least to me that puts the picture of him / his country being at war in my mind
It’s an absolute act, if anything it clowns tragedy of people dragged from streets to the front. Also why not uniform then? He’s the commander of all AFU.
The fact we are talking about it proves the signal is effective.
Kinda but again it’s an act, it would be also talked about it if he wore a clown costume or gimpsuit.
he’s a method actor
why cant zelnsky dress normal
He went to the leaders of the free world store without realizing they cater to giants, which he is not
his image advisor has no idea what to do after getting blasted by trump for not wearing a suit so now he’s trying to compensate with these ones.
🎣
Who is the third from the left?PS: Sorry that was politically incorrect, let me rephrase my question: Who is the second from the far right?
Kier Starmer, aka Kid Starver and Kiev Sturmer
Aka Queer Harmer
To be fair, they’re (understandably) under martial law which has been extended in 90 day increments since 2022 with parliamentary approval. Elections aren’t to be held under martial law per Ukranian law, and there have been referenda to determine if elections should be held, which failed.
dont try to argue with the red army on lemmy. they cannot take any reasoning, lol. it seems like they dont know anyone from the Ukraine and only care about spewing russian Propaganda…
Um, excuse me I have a note saying I’m exempt from doing democracy right now
dont try to argue with the white army on lemmy. they cannot take any reasoning, lol. it seems like they dont know anyone from the proletariat and only care about spewing tsarist Propaganda…
Why are you on lemmy? Is anyone forcing you or paying you to be on lemmy?
And the bit where they criminalised over ten opposition parties?
there have been referenda to determine if elections should be held
??? I can’t find evidence of any such referenda. This seems to just be false. Do you just mean ‘survey’?
I am (and most people are) not saying Ukraine MUST hold elections tomorrow. But the meme’s point stands - that none of these people have a meaningful democratic mandate.
Referendum was incorrect. It was just a vote by the legislature, so elected representatives. I had seen Referendum used in some source, but I forget where.
On 26 February 2025, after a previous failed vote on a similar resolution,[27] the Verkhovna Rada passed a resolution reaffirming that elections should not be held during martial law, and also pledged to hold a presidential election upon the conclusion of the Russo-Ukrainian War.[28] On 6 March 2025 opposition politicians Petro Poroshenko and Yulia Tymoshenko, after having confirmed that they had held discussions with United States representatives, confirmed that they still opposed elections held during wartime.[29]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Ukrainian_presidential_election
So elected representatives decided that further elections are not necessary, and in the country where opposition is banned, hmm, indeed a democracy to behold.
I mean, banning most of the opposition parties certainly helps getting the cooperation of the remaining ones.
On 6 March 2025 opposition politicians Petro Poroshenko and Yulia Tymoshenko, after having confirmed that they had held discussions with United States representatives, confirmed that they still opposed elections held during wartime.
So democratic, much liberty.
Genuine questions:
Was he seemingly fairly elected originally, and did he hold elections previously? (I don’t know how Ukrainian elections work or how long he was in office before 2022)
How “in control” is he of the parliament / the referenda determining elections? Is it a Trump situation where all his buddies are in position to say, “sure! give him all the power!”, or is there more separation?
I’m admittedly relatively uninformed in the conflict, but I will say it was interesting seeing the general opinion of Lemmy go from “Slava Ukraini, fuck Russian Nazis, here’s some footage of Russian teenagers getting blown up with drones, Trump bad for not wanting to give aid” to “Zelensky is a fascist war criminal and also a Nazi and dumb American liberals are bad for siding with them” seemingly overnight. The switch happened a while ago but it was apparently unanimous.
My assumption is that the Russian psyops teams discovered Lemmy and have been influencing opinions, the same as they have previously on Facebook.
Yes, because you’re an extremist who can’t imagine anyone genuinely disagreeing with you
It would be naive to believe otherwise. Stay vigilant, and disconnect when you can. This shit is poison
Hahahaha
My assumption is that the NATO/nafo psyops teams utilize reddit and communities like .world and have been influencing opinions, the same as they have previously on Facebook.
Of course it is, liberal vanity and solipsism means you cannot possibly countenance the prospect of an actual person disagreeing with you unless money has changed hands.
The communists have been on Lemmy since the beginning.
the general opinion of Lemmy go from “Slava Ukraini, fuck Russian Nazis, here’s some footage of Russian teenagers getting blown up with drones, Trump bad for not wanting to give aid” to “Zelensky is a fascist war criminal and also a Nazi and dumb American liberals are bad for siding with them” seemingly overnight. The switch happened a while ago but it was apparently unanimous.
Lemmy has always had people who took the second position, and still has people who take the first position. There has been a general shift, but it was neither sudden nor unanimous.
When I first joined Lemmy, those that held the second opinion were down voted en masse and we’re always lambasted as Russian trolls and Nazi sympathizers. I never saw a pro Russia / anti Ukraine post or comment with positive votes. Nowadays I don’t think I see many explicitly “pro Russia” posts but there’s a good number of anti Ukraine posts that are relatively high on the front page, and most pro Ukraine comments have at least one upvoted reply calling them a liberal or pro-fascist.
I didn’t necessarily mean unanimous as in, “everyone now has this opinion”, so much as “the hive mind has decided that we now upvote this opinion and down vote that one”. Like, there’s Trump supporters on Lemmy, whenever they comment anything pro-Trump it’s kind of a given (not necessarily saying a good one) that it’s going to get downvoted, and most things critical of him will get upvoted even if it’s not the most accurate or ingenuous criticism. To me, it very much seemed like one week it was “upvote Ukraine, downvote Russia!”, and the next it was “downvote Ukraine, Russia…🤷🏽♂️!”. Somewhere around the Iran shitshow.
Might just be a matter of what coms you’re reading
Zelensky was fairly elected because his platform was peace with Russia and he had strong messaging about how Russians and Ukrainians are brotherly nations. Of course he then immediately dropped the pretense the moment he got elected and started passing anti-Russian laws.
Was he seemingly fairly elected originally, and did he hold elections previously? (I don’t know how Ukrainian elections work or how long he was in office before 2022)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Ukrainian_presidential_election
Zelensky was elected with a fairly overwhelming majority of nearly 75%. He was particularly supported in the east of Ukraine. He hasn’t held elections himself because Russia invaded the country.
Ukrainian electoral law prohibits elections during wartime. If it’s too unsafe, one can even argue that the security situation prevents free and fair elections, thus making an election under such circumstances unconstitutional. Zelensky wields significant authority in the country, but it’s not because he seized it, it’s because the country is politically fairly united due to the war. The Ukrainian anti-corruption agencies have taken aim at some high-level allies of Zelensky (though not the man himself, not that there are credible allegations or something), and thus far Zelensky has allowed the investigations and prosecutions.
The whole “Zelensky is a Nazi” thing is part of the Russian propaganda narrative. Ukraine’s history contains a fair few attempts at independence, and in more recent times against the Soviet Union. Back in the day, Ukrainian independence groups were ideologically aligned with the main enemy of the Soviets, which was Nazi Germany. This is the whole “Banderite” term being flung around: fascist groups who fought against the Soviets for Ukrainian independence.
Ukraine still regards these people as heroes for fighting against the Soviets. Their fascist ideology is mostly ignored, even by Zelensky (a Jewish man himself). Even today there are far-right groups in Ukraine. Zelensky has essentially recruited these people in the fight against Russia since they are fervent nationalists. Putin uses this as “evidence” that Ukraine is a fascist state, and that the Russian attack on Ukraine is as virtuous as the Soviet defense against the Nazis.
In reality, actual fascist ideology isn’t a widely held belief in Ukraine, and the parties that tried to run in the election espousing far-right views did not do well. The largest far-right party, Svoboda, received a mere 1.65% of the vote for their presidential candidate.
Sorry but I got the hick.
The whole “Zelensky is a Nazi” thing is part of the Russian propaganda narrative.
I would personally disagree, not completely but I feel it’s incorrect. I would ask, is Zelensky leading a country with fascist ideology? Let’s see…
Ukrainian independence groups were ideologically aligned with the main enemy of the Soviets, which was Nazi Germany.
Well, that’s concerning, no?
This is the whole “Banderite” term being flung around: fascist groups who fought against the Soviets for Ukrainian independence
The “Banderite” term refers to Stepan Bandera.
Bandera remains a highly controversial figure in Ukraine. Many Ukrainians hail him as an example, or as a martyred liberation fighter, while other Ukrainians, particular in the south and east, condemn him as a fascist or Nazi collaborator whose followers, called Banderites, were responsible for massacres of Polish and Jewish civilians during World War II.
Bandera in 2010 was awarded as “Hero of Ukraine”. He is in traditional folk Ukrainian music. In October 2007, the city of Lviv erected a statue dedicated to Bandera. On 1 January 2014, Bandera’s 105th birthday was celebrated by a torchlight procession of 15,000 people in the centre of Kyiv and thousands more rallied near his statue in Lviv. In 2021, the Ukrainian Institute of National Memory under the authority of the Ukrainian Ministry of Culture, included Bandera, among other Ukrainian nationalist figures, in Virtual Necropolis, a project intended to commemorate historical figures important for Ukraine.
Ukraine still regards these people as heroes for fighting against the Soviets.
Well, that’s concerning pt.2
Their fascist ideology is mostly ignored, even by Zelensky (a Jewish man himself).
Bibi looking at your comment like 👀
Even today there are far-right groups in Ukraine. Zelensky has essentially recruited these people in the fight against Russia since they are fervent nationalists.
Well, that’s concerning pt.3
In reality, actual fascist ideology isn’t a widely held belief in Ukraine
How the U.S. Has Empowered and Armed Neo-Nazis in Ukraine
Nazi Symbols on Ukraine’s Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of History
Nazis in Ukraine: Seeing through the fog of the information war
Do you think Ukraine should allow the invasion and surrender, if a large portion of their support comes from Nazi sympathizers? I’m not trying to rage bait or or pull a “So yOu thInK thIS tHEn?!” I’m genuinely trying to understand the other side of the argument.
Like, I agree with you, it’s obviously not “good” to have those fucks on your side. But it’s really easy for me to say that while I’m sitting on my ass in my comfortable house thousands of miles away from conflict. If I were the leader of a country being invaded by a much larger force, and I had essentially a militia in my country ready to fight and defend it, and my options were “use the militia or watch your nation burn”, I’d probably be in the same position…
And I will try to reply in a normal way, I promise. I already got this same question discussing the same topic (not saying someone is repeating a propaganda they did not understand, but you know… here we are again.)
Do you think Ukraine should allow the invasion and surrender, if a large portion of their support comes from Nazi sympathizers?
This question makes a big assumption that it’s hard to ignore. Because “if a large portion of their support comes from Nazi” we have only two options: either you don’t have people fit for combat that are not nazi in your entire country (so you are a leader of a nazi country) or they are not all nazi and you are picking the bad ones for… reasons?
we are also ignoring that we are discussing an “if” questions. So yes, we can make up any reality we want.
Like image asking: “what man? Hitler either had no choice but to create the SS or his country would be destroyed!”
??? I mean, okay good… what do you want me to tell you…
Thank you for the good faith response, promise I’m not a parrot for anyone lol.
In my (uninformed) view, it isn’t so much that, “Ukraine only has Nazis capable of fighting”, so much as it’s, “Russia is a way bigger country with a larger army, we need literally everyone we’ve got, even the Nazis”.
Like if the entire country was rallying behind a Nazi flag and they were tossing people in concentration camps and making plans to genocide another group it’d obviously be a different story, but they’re trying to kick people out of their own land, and as far as I know (again, not terribly far) they don’t have plans to keep going afterwards. If that were the case… Yeah, maybe Russia should just take em all out. Not a fan of Russia, but less of a fan of Nazis.
The Hitler analogy isn’t a fair one because Germany was an aggressor. The argument can’t be made that they were in the same situation that Ukraine is in.
it’s, “Russia is a way bigger country with a larger army, we need literally everyone we’ve got, even the Nazis”.
That’s a lot of fascists tho. Also, what a depressing and shitty situation to be in. If that was the case and we want to be shiny warriors of justice, we should at least talk about it.
Like if the entire country was rallying behind a Nazi flag and they were tossing people in concentration camps and making plans to genocide another group it’d obviously be a different story
Ukraine has always been a very divided country (east/west) and the central government has been hostile towards Russian majority oblasts (and there are since Russia is a neighbour). There is whole wiki page about Ukrainization which itself it’s a strange concept, no? Ukraine and the Ukrainian language come from Russian, it was the most beloved region during the URSS, little Russia was called. Why all this hostility, why the ukrainization? It’s like doing an irlandization of British people living in Irland. That sounds insane no?
The argument can’t be made that they were in the same situation that Ukraine is in.
But look now how far we went, from “Putin is crazy dictator who just wants war” to “he might be right about the de-nazification of Ukraine”. Also this is almost literally the meme where the guy tattoos a swastika to prove he’s not a Nazi.
I’m not saying he’s right, but if my next door neighbour calls my dead mother a whore everyday and one day I punch him in the face, that’s still violence but he deserves it. You won’t catch me crying for nazis, that’s all.
Like if the entire country was rallying behind a Nazi flag and they were tossing people in concentration camps and making plans to genocide another group it’d obviously be a different story
I’ll just point that the rallying behind a Nazi flag is not exactly how things go in reality. MAGAs use the USA flag for the majority, the Brazilian far right tried to stole the Brazilian soccer uniform as a their symbol(which is the country flag colors), the Ukraine banderites was using the Ukraine flag(with the nazi spin).
@papalonian@lemmy.world the nazi thing is not propaganda; the united states congress literally banned weapons sales to ukraine because of heir nazis proclivities. their first attempt to do so was back in 2015 – ask yourself how are you 11 years slower than congress in recognizing this?
In reality, actual fascist ideology isn’t a widely held belief in Ukraine
The Azor group tied party got about 1% in popular election.
Is 1% a widely held belief?
It’s a metric to gauge the feelings towards fascists ideology. Yes, 1% for a strictly confirmed military Nazi battalion? Yes it is a lot.
It’s a metric to gauge the feelings towards fascists ideology.
What country are you from? Or alternatively, which government/organisation do you feel is doing the good work? Let’s check if that country/org has a far righters and what is the feeling of other citizens towards their far righters.
Yes, 1% for a strictly confirmed military Nazi battalion? 1% for far right group, not for the battalion. And having ONLY 1% of far righters or nationalists in any country is frankly better than I expected.
Oh, sorry, my bad, I wrote that to agree with you. My bad for not being clear enough
My two cents as a western European: several things can be true at once. Russia is still the agressor, starting with the annexation of Crimea in 2014. Zelenskyy was elected shortly after that, replacing a puppet regime that was in place for quite some time (although that’s just what we’ve been told, again I’m not Ukrainian so I haven’t followed a lot of it).
Zelenskyy does have some folks in government that are his unconditional allies but that’s uniform in politics. His current role is that of a caricature he’s become since he was painted as some sort of hero in 2022, where he made some correct PR decisions. Now that he shares a stage with the US’s odd characters, his job has become somewhat bizarre so he’s fully aware he needs to be looking more at the EU. He’s always been pro-EU and wanted to join as soon as he took power.
This shift you speak of came from lemmy.ml or lemmygrad, but their users also spill over into world since those instances have mostly been defederated because of the baseless accusations towards Ukraine. What is based in reality is that there in extremists in Ukrainian ranks that have, let’s say, unorthodox views, but their main objective is still to just fight Russia out of Ukraine.
I think that for most of lemmy, people are just getting more or less bored of voicing their support, making it easier for pro-Russian voices to prevail. But it’s usually pretty much troll-ey ragebait and I think a lot of lemmings just downvote and move on. Plus, lemmy and piefed have pretty decent filtering options making it easier to just block content you’re tired of seeing.
starting with the annexation of Crimea in 2014
That is the ukrainian october 7
I would buy this if westerners applied the same nuance to states under imperialist siege, but of course they never have that nuance.
I agree that the situation isn’t treated with nuance, typically, by westerners. But in this case, this isn’t particularly nuanced or naïve - it’s just a statement of fact that the parliament has voted repeatedly to extend martial law.
That doesn’t mean Ukraine is a super-democratic country. It only means that it is the case that the government, made up of elected representatives (and yes, Ukraine banned 11 political parties for alleged Russian ties - one of them with ~10% of parliamentary seats - so the representativeness of the legislature is certainly debatable) has voted to not allow presidential elections until the war is over.
Obviously it’d take a much longer explanation to capture all of the relevant geopolitical context, but this is a factually accurate statement about what is happening, yes?
Let me get this right, they purged the opposition and afterwards vote to mantain power? 😅
They purged roughly 10% - 12% of the opposition by parliament seats, yeah - that means it is at least that much less democratic. I’m just stating facts here. This isn’t a strong defense of the democratic values of Ukraine, just a statement that they aren’t wholly undemocratic as suggested in the meme - it’s misleading.
