It’s unfair to associate everyone questioning those particular vaccines with certain political parties. Not everyone is american to begin with, but covid is a worldwide issue. Putting blind trust into rushed mRNA tech isn’t something that is reasonable to demand from a rational person. Those who accept this vax basically agree to become test subjects for decades to come, it is their choice but it’s not for everyone.
Not to mention how easy it was to set up trials when everyone was constantly to getting sick. The reason why most vaccine trials take forever is because you can’t just give people the disease they’re testing the vaccine against, but with Covid in a global pandemic the trials naturally went super quick.
How does someone without a basic though process managed to make an account on lemmy? Are you lost?
mRNA tech isn’t rushed, it was basically ready for a long time and covid gave it the push it needed to become broadly used.
And if you are worried about fictional effects of a vaccine more than the very common, dangerous, visible effects of covid, then you’re just full of shit.
“I’d rather be shot than to eat aspartame, because who knows what kind of dangers are linked to aspartame?!” is basically identical to your stance, and it’s mindbogglingly moronic.
Yeah, you know, I know a great total of one person who had that strong reaction to the vaccine: heart going turbo, had to go to the emergency, doctor recommending not to take the 3rd dose.
Assessment: the vaccine is dangerous the virus would most likely kill you.
Now you need to think about all these smart people unvaccinated “trusting their immune system”, probably carrying the virus because guess what: unvaccinated are contagious for longer than vaccinated, as they are: fucking killers.
Right? People completely ignore what happened to people who got the vaccine! My buddy got it and had a full threesome with two chicks. They don’t talk about that!
Just FYI the covid vaccine is the most tested vaccine in human history. It was also tested more thoroughly and quickly because there were so many opportunities to do so compared to other vaccines.
So if you didn’t want to take it before it became available to the commoners, I get it, but to avoid it after that point is just a conspiracy theory.
“Yeah, well I didn’t know about it until recently so obviously it didn’t exist before then. Checkmate woke vaxxer sheep! Get on my level! I drank mud today to boost my immune system!”
No way, you mean many governments prioritized research and production of the same thing, simultaneously? As if, it’s not like people were dying or something /s
“In order to make everyone comfortable about it, the Ebola-27 vaccine, Ebola-27 currently killing hundreds of thousands people per week, will go through the slowest possible trial protocol, and based on preliminary data, should be available before humans total extinction.”
Well, un a way that bas been a proof of care of humans to humans : some countries imposed a lock down so a part of the people don’t risk to die. That has been a surprise for me. A good one. And yes, this vaccine has been shown by most tested.
It’s always helpful when someone so utterly disqualifies themself from producing cogent thought that I can add another user to my red user tag list! Thank you for your service! Lil baka indeed! A wonderfully descriptive name.
How many years of mRNA research and development you have?
Or someone you know, perhaps?
Ah wait, those are TikTik mRNA R&D years of experience we are talking about. Got it.
Stupind cunt, you can say the same thing about every single technology ever invented in human history.
It’s so nice telling idiots to just fuck off with their shit after decades of trying to tolerate the intolerance and argue in good faith, giving them benefit of the doubt.
No point in engaging with them/you. So tired or dumb fucks injecting fuck knows what into their bodies for half of their life but life saving vaccines are where they draw the line. Because they somehow think they are part of a special club. It is “special”, right. Just not in the way you think.
Hey, it’s not that complex. If I really want to know now, I need to become a scientist in this specific field, otherwise I have no hope to verify any of this. If I don’t, I will consider it more trustworthy when after 20-30 years of its regular use people who took it and their kids don’t develop something bad.
Trusting our Government Issued™ scientists implicitly is how we got The Tuskegee Experiments, sometimes a little healthy skepticism isn’t a bad thing. Idk about this one but y’know “just trust me bro” honestly shouldn’t be our SOP on a daily basis.
You also shouldn’t trust your mechanic implicitly, they’ve (as a profession) been known to upsell on things you don’t need to get more of your money because they know you don’t know anything and they can get away with it.
I trust my mechanic, because when he replaced a rusty section of my exhaust he used a stethoscope to check if his welds were airtight, I watched him do it.
I trust the scientists, because people watching them do the work is exactly what peer review and replication are.
The rest of the stuff they do, that I don’t understand, I will trust implicitly because of how open and honest the things I do understand were.
Then you verified that, you’re not just trusting that he did.
Sure you can trust these scientists, again that isn’t what I’m talking about.
The Tuskegee Experiments had more than one mad scientist in the room too, “just trust me bro” isn’t a good enough answer for anything, just trust me bro.
No my point is, I’m trusting him when I’m not watching too.
We can extrapolate from the existing body of work of these scientists, we demonstrably can trust them bro.
That experiment that started 90 years ago, running for 40 years, never underwent any contemporary peer review. The COVID vaccines have, with government reviews, dozens of outside parties having a look into the formulations, many papers speaking to the theoretical and I’m sure by now practical efficacy.
You can’t compare a region limited pre electric conspiracy to a contemporary information age alleged conspiracy, the circumstances and scale reduce any parallels to background noise.
No my point is, I’m trusting him when I’m not watching too.
Well good for you, but that doesn’t mean he’s necessarily actually trustworthy, without knowing either of you, you could be a total sucker and he could be a good conman. “While I was down there I noticed your struts…” Struts were fine, he noticed you wouldn’t question him saying they needed to be replaced.
We can extrapolate from the existing body of work of these scientists, we demonstrably can trust them bro.
Ok here’s something you can really trust me bro on, for the fourth or fifth time, I’m not talking specifically about The Holy Vaccine, I’m speaking of the concept of trusting bros as a whole.
Peer review existing at all is an example of not “trusting them bro” btw.
If you’re unable to discuss the topic of why or why not you should or should not “just trust” people regardless of expertise divorced from one specific thing, then I don’t think there’s a point to continuing this, we’ll have to agree to disagree not talk about the same thing. Your focus is so narrow, is The Covid Vaccine™ the only thing that exists to you or is reality larger?
So… I am supposed to know not to trust the covid vaccine and also blind trust is good?
Is that what you mean by backwards?
Cause I said “I don’t necessarily think [skepticism] is the best course of action regarding this current topic which is the covid vaccine, but blindly trusting people regardless of expertise isn’t always the best thing to do.”
“Backwards” of that would be… y’know… trust everyone except this vaccine… so… ?
Care to elaborate?
Edit: OH did you mean like this?
.sisab yliad a no POS ruo eb t’ndluohs yltsenoh “orb em tsurt tsuj” wonk’y tub eno siht tuoba kdI
But it is! Do you trust the food you eat? Who knows what could happen… If you take any medications at all, you must trust in some part the whole supply chain. If you drive a car, especially a new model, you trust the designers, engineers, and QA to make something that won’t kill you. Do you fly? Do you enter your banking or financial info into any computer?
I’m not saying we should blindly trust anyone, especially not a single person, but we have to trust the experts at least some, in every field. And when those experts all basically agree… What else is there to do? Or society is built on trust.
No, it’s all full of microplastics and chemicals and Monsanto scientific horrors. I still have to eat, but I know it’s killing me slowly. You shouldn’t trust that any more than your scammy mechanic.
If you take any medications at all, you must trust in some part the whole supply chain.
Yeah medications never have unintended side effects that come out years later, and nobody has ever put potassium cyanide in Aspirin bottles, great example.
If you drive a car, especially a new model, you trust the designers, engineers, and QA to make something that won’t kill you
Yeah like a Tesla, huh? New as hell, burning people alive in crashes. Recalls happen all the time, and often don’t when they should, you’re sure there won’t be one for yours?
Do you fly?
Hell no.
Do you enter your banking or financial info into any computer?
Very limited, never stored, one device I don’t do anything sketchy on. Usually I just go to the bank, like, the building.
Even people who aren’t lying to you may be wrong, it can happen at any level of knowledge or expertise.
And just to remind you, I’m not talking about “vaccines,” I’m talking about “just trust me bro” w.r.t most things.
It’s not don’t trust me bro lol. You are welcome to read the data yourself. The problem is you likely do not have the prerequisite knowledge to understand it.
You don’t need to become a scientist, just trust the good ones.
As a concept in particular. That is very much “trust me bro.”
I’m not sure what studies in particular say “you should trust ‘experts’ unquestioningly bro,” so I have a sneaking suspicion you’re referring to the thing I said I wasn’t talking about specifically EIGHT TIMES NOW. Sorry I had to get loud, but it seems nobody can hear around here.
Now, accepting that this vaccine was created in a joint effort by Jesus, Muhammed, and YHWH, OF COURSE it is unquestionable. HOWEVER: Everything ELSE in life, you can’t necessarily trust the experts LIKE YOU CAN ON THE HOLY ROMAN COVID VACCINE!! LOOK EVERYONE I’M SAYING IT’S THE BEST EVER, IT’S DELICIOUS I’M EATING ONE RIGHT NOW!!NN!!N
Hopefully I’ve signaled my unquestioning loyalty on THIS TOPIC well enough to make you realize other things exist? Have I bowed enough that we can have an actual conversation now?
In this particular case, you don’t trust your gov, your countries scientists, the rest of the world’s scientist corpus. But a bench of folks on Internet with 0 medical background telling you the vaccine is dangerous and the Covid-19 is not that much, that’s clearly something you should take in account.
Did I really have to tap the sign for the fifteenth time? I ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED THE COVID VACCINE IS THE BEST THING JESUS EVER MADE EVER, BUT “JUST TRUST ME BRO” AS A RULE ISN’T ALWAYS THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION. Literally fifteen different times I’ve clarified this now.
You get in a car absolutely confident it will not explode after 2km because a small group of engineers you’ve never heard of designed, tested and qualified that engine. In case of an accident, you assume the airbag will deploy because a small group of engineers you’ve never heard of designed, tested and qualified the airbag trigger sensor and the airbag itself. Are you an engine expert? Are you an airbag expert?
You get in a plane assuming it flies because a small group of engineers you’ve never heard of designed, tested and qualified the plane to fly. Are you an aeronautic expert??
But if a group of doctors develop a vaccine that is then tested under supervision of thousands of their peer, with thousands more checking the data and claiming they look good, including most likely your own physician, suddenly it’s too much uncertainty and you need to become an expert in the field to trust them.
But if a group of doctors develop a vaccine that is then tested under supervision of thousands of their peer, with thousands more checking the data and claiming they look good, including most likely your own physician, suddenly it’s too much uncertainty and you need to become an expert in the field to trust them.
Only when it was developed in extremely short terms as emergency measure instead of in regular way. Is this “little nuance” really so unobvious it needs to be pointed out.
For previous vaccines for which we have data, the average period between microbe isolation and vaccine development was 48 years, with a record of about four years. The average time between vaccine development and 40 percent coverage was 42 years, with a record of 14 years for rotavirus. For COVID-19, the period between microbe isolation and vaccine development was less than a year, and between vaccine development and 40 percent coverage just 11 months.
So my personal standard “lets wait 2 decades” isn’t even that big, because average is 4 decades.
What corner was cut for the Covid-19 vaccine?
I don’t know that in detail and I didn’t research it. In my country this virus wasn’t such an overwhelming question of life and death as it was in US, apparently. There was no dilemma of “vax risk vs covid death”, it was a bit scary in the news at first, but almost invisible flu that not many really reported at all in media and I don’t personally know anyone who was even sure they had it or died from it. From this thread I get it that it was some kind of plague in US where literally everybody were dying left and right from this virus. In this context your collective defense of vaccine and peer pressure on ever questioning it makes some sense. In my case, it wasn’t even important enough to research vaccine situation, it’s just more reasonable to question the vaccine in absence of longer timeframes of data, because the virus itself isn’t even scary enough. I expect scary enough virus to be observable empirically and socially, not only in numbers given from above.
When the covid vaccines came out, the scaremongers said everyone will start dying from the them in a month. That didn’t happen. Then they said just you wait and see, it’ll happen next month. Nope. Then it was just wait six months, then a year, then two years… now it’s up to 20 years. Why would anyone of reasonable intelligence believe it this time?
MRNA vaccines were first trialled in the 1990s on animals. No animal died prematurely from them.
There’s never been a vaccine where side effects arose decades later. Serious vaccine side effects are detected within days or weeks of vaccination.
So what evidence do you have that the covid vaccines are truly different? Zero.
Ironically, you’re more likely to die earlier by living a life stressing about people dying earlier from vaccines.
Yes, some healthy scepticism is great and very valuable. But, you do need to put some trust in experts, they are the ones who know the field well enough to share the important parts. When it comes to the mRNA vaccines, they were understood well enough to be almost certain that the risks of catching COVID far outweigh the risks of the vaccine, especially once you consider heard immunity and the impact it has on people at risk who can’t take the vaccine. So at that point it becomes clearly the safest choice to get everyone to take it.
Tinfoil analogy was irrelevant to original topic and my response is also irrelevant to original topic, and instead addresses foolishness of tinfoil meme in this day and age. Anyway, here you go:
It’s not a question of some global conspiracy theory, scientists might themself not be aware of potential problems of these vaccines
I don’t have access to DARPA’s nanoparticles and I don’t think those scientists would agree to let me take their EEG to try to decipher it, and there’s no point in doing that because it’s not even a question of legitimacy of individual research
Oh… so scientists themselves might not be aware of potential problems with the vaccines, but complete fucking morons such as yourself and that worm-brained idiot in front of the US health department, who know NOTHING about the subject (not even the most basic scientific concepts) are supposed to be the ones who know?
I didn’t say I know about problems that scientists don’t know about. I’m saying that I don’t want to take the risks because I consider it too early to be confident they’re safe for me. And there’s been way too many people that got weird blood clots, cancers and what not soon after taking the jab, that needs to be sorted out as well.
Herd immunity is a real effect. If vaccines help you not catch the disease, then an unvaccinated person is less likely to catch the disease in a population with a high vaccination rate. Because the disease doesn’t spread as much.
If you can lower the infection rate so that on average, each sick person results in less than one other sick person, infections die out instead of growing. That is “herd immunity.”
I believe in the quoted piece they refer to an idea that people who are both in high risk group but also can’t take the vaccine because of their conditions will have it harder because of mutations happening to the virus in people who decided not to take it but have it easy and develop natural immunity to it.
Even if a leaky vaccine leads to a more virulent strain (it didn’t for covid as far as I know), if heard immunity is achieved that makes it hard to spread it might never make it to a vulnerable individual.
No one quoted any piece. Heard immunity is a fairly simple concept about preventing the spread by having most people immune to it, so babies and others who can’t be vaccinated are unlikely to ever be exposed to it.
It’s not about mutations, but it is another issue if you allow something to spread it will have more opportunities to mutate and become more virulent
Covid has evolved to barely provide any immunity. Up to 70 percent up to 9 months. People catch it several times a year and long covid is as much a risk as it ever was.
I’ll grant you the effect is less because of the mutations (and I would be interested in seeing a paper about it, I might have to look up some research), but it also doesn’t help that the vaccination rate is and has been so low because of misinformation, to say the least.
Well it’s pretty much proven now isn’t it given it had one of the largest mass deployments of a vaccine tech in history. It wasn’t even rushed, it had been in development for years.
I know concept isn’t new, they’re still not as widely used and this particular one was rushed and only have few years of data behind it. I’m only comfortable with something that has at least few decades and few generations of data behind.
It wasn’t rushed, it got priority on funding and testing. It’s an example of how much can be done and how little overall time it could take if we allocate resources correctly.
It’s unfair to associate everyone questioning those particular vaccines with certain political parties. Not everyone is american to begin with, but covid is a worldwide issue. Putting blind trust into rushed mRNA tech isn’t something that is reasonable to demand from a rational person. Those who accept this vax basically agree to become test subjects for decades to come, it is their choice but it’s not for everyone.
Rushed. RUSHED?
Played your hand really early there. Thanks for letting us all know you don’t actually know anything about the history of mRNA vaccine research.
Not to mention how easy it was to set up trials when everyone was constantly to getting sick. The reason why most vaccine trials take forever is because you can’t just give people the disease they’re testing the vaccine against, but with Covid in a global pandemic the trials naturally went super quick.
How does someone without a basic though process managed to make an account on lemmy? Are you lost?
mRNA tech isn’t rushed, it was basically ready for a long time and covid gave it the push it needed to become broadly used.
And if you are worried about fictional effects of a vaccine more than the very common, dangerous, visible effects of covid, then you’re just full of shit.
“I’d rather be shot than to eat aspartame, because who knows what kind of dangers are linked to aspartame?!” is basically identical to your stance, and it’s mindbogglingly moronic.
That’s just a flu to most people. Many are completely unsymptomatic.
Heart attacks, blood clots, cancer, etc. Even some very famous people got those very soon after getting vaccinated.
The flu is not a cold you dumbfuck
back this up with proof so I can watch people tear it apart.
Yeah, you know, I know a great total of one person who had that strong reaction to the vaccine: heart going turbo, had to go to the emergency, doctor recommending not to take the 3rd dose.
Assessment:
the vaccine is dangerousthe virus would most likely kill you.Now you need to think about all these smart people unvaccinated “trusting their immune system”, probably carrying the virus because guess what: unvaccinated are contagious for longer than vaccinated, as they are: fucking killers.
Yeah so you’re just making up whatever deluded reality you live in now. Whatever.
Put up or shut up.
You make assertions like that, you best bring receipts.
Right? People completely ignore what happened to people who got the vaccine! My buddy got it and had a full threesome with two chicks. They don’t talk about that!
No it isn’t
If not by political party, by stupidity level then?
its true not all anti vaxxers are republicans but all anti vaxxers are morons.
You’re stupid
Just FYI the covid vaccine is the most tested vaccine in human history. It was also tested more thoroughly and quickly because there were so many opportunities to do so compared to other vaccines.
So if you didn’t want to take it before it became available to the commoners, I get it, but to avoid it after that point is just a conspiracy theory.
“Yeah, well I didn’t know about it until recently so obviously it didn’t exist before then. Checkmate woke vaxxer sheep! Get on my level! I drank mud today to boost my immune system!”
😐
No way, you mean many governments prioritized research and production of the same thing, simultaneously? As if, it’s not like people were dying or something /s
“In order to make everyone comfortable about it, the Ebola-27 vaccine, Ebola-27 currently killing hundreds of thousands people per week, will go through the slowest possible trial protocol, and based on preliminary data, should be available before humans total extinction.”
Well, un a way that bas been a proof of care of humans to humans : some countries imposed a lock down so a part of the people don’t risk to die. That has been a surprise for me. A good one. And yes, this vaccine has been shown by most tested.
The first people to get the vaccine were the 100 US senators in the federal government.
At a time when it had a 50/50 party split.
It’s always helpful when someone so utterly disqualifies themself from producing cogent thought that I can add another user to my red user tag list! Thank you for your service! Lil baka indeed! A wonderfully descriptive name.
Yeah, fuck right off.
How many years of mRNA research and development you have?
Or someone you know, perhaps?
Ah wait, those are TikTik mRNA R&D years of experience we are talking about. Got it.
Stupind cunt, you can say the same thing about every single technology ever invented in human history.
It’s so nice telling idiots to just fuck off with their shit after decades of trying to tolerate the intolerance and argue in good faith, giving them benefit of the doubt.
No point in engaging with them/you. So tired or dumb fucks injecting fuck knows what into their bodies for half of their life but life saving vaccines are where they draw the line. Because they somehow think they are part of a special club. It is “special”, right. Just not in the way you think.
Malicious cunts.
Hey, it’s not that complex. If I really want to know now, I need to become a scientist in this specific field, otherwise I have no hope to verify any of this. If I don’t, I will consider it more trustworthy when after 20-30 years of its regular use people who took it and their kids don’t develop something bad.
You don’t need to become a scientist, just trust the good ones. I don’t know shit about fixing cars, but I trust my mechanic.
Not that I’m on dude’s side or anything, but:
Trusting our Government Issued™ scientists implicitly is how we got The Tuskegee Experiments, sometimes a little healthy skepticism isn’t a bad thing. Idk about this one but y’know “just trust me bro” honestly shouldn’t be our SOP on a daily basis.
You also shouldn’t trust your mechanic implicitly, they’ve (as a profession) been known to upsell on things you don’t need to get more of your money because they know you don’t know anything and they can get away with it.
I trust my mechanic, because when he replaced a rusty section of my exhaust he used a stethoscope to check if his welds were airtight, I watched him do it.
I trust the scientists, because people watching them do the work is exactly what peer review and replication are.
The rest of the stuff they do, that I don’t understand, I will trust implicitly because of how open and honest the things I do understand were.
Then you verified that, you’re not just trusting that he did.
Sure you can trust these scientists, again that isn’t what I’m talking about.
The Tuskegee Experiments had more than one mad scientist in the room too, “just trust me bro” isn’t a good enough answer for anything, just trust me bro.
No my point is, I’m trusting him when I’m not watching too.
We can extrapolate from the existing body of work of these scientists, we demonstrably can trust them bro.
That experiment that started 90 years ago, running for 40 years, never underwent any contemporary peer review. The COVID vaccines have, with government reviews, dozens of outside parties having a look into the formulations, many papers speaking to the theoretical and I’m sure by now practical efficacy.
You can’t compare a region limited pre electric conspiracy to a contemporary information age alleged conspiracy, the circumstances and scale reduce any parallels to background noise.
Well good for you, but that doesn’t mean he’s necessarily actually trustworthy, without knowing either of you, you could be a total sucker and he could be a good conman. “While I was down there I noticed your struts…” Struts were fine, he noticed you wouldn’t question him saying they needed to be replaced.
Ok here’s something you can really trust me bro on, for the fourth or fifth time, I’m not talking specifically about The Holy Vaccine, I’m speaking of the concept of trusting bros as a whole.
Peer review existing at all is an example of not “trusting them bro” btw.
If you’re unable to discuss the topic of why or why not you should or should not “just trust” people regardless of expertise divorced from one specific thing, then I don’t think there’s a point to continuing this, we’ll have to agree to
disagreenot talk about the same thing. Your focus is so narrow, is The Covid Vaccine™ the only thing that exists to you or is reality larger?That’s the neat thing, scientists from all around the globe are saying the same thing. No need to trust your gvmt.
Whut? You got it all backwards I guess
So… I am supposed to know not to trust the covid vaccine and also blind trust is good?
Is that what you mean by backwards?
Cause I said “I don’t necessarily think [skepticism] is the best course of action regarding this current topic which is the covid vaccine, but blindly trusting people regardless of expertise isn’t always the best thing to do.”
“Backwards” of that would be… y’know… trust everyone except this vaccine… so… ?
Care to elaborate?
Edit: OH did you mean like this?
But it is! Do you trust the food you eat? Who knows what could happen… If you take any medications at all, you must trust in some part the whole supply chain. If you drive a car, especially a new model, you trust the designers, engineers, and QA to make something that won’t kill you. Do you fly? Do you enter your banking or financial info into any computer?
I’m not saying we should blindly trust anyone, especially not a single person, but we have to trust the experts at least some, in every field. And when those experts all basically agree… What else is there to do? Or society is built on trust.
For some.
No, it’s all full of microplastics and chemicals and Monsanto scientific horrors. I still have to eat, but I know it’s killing me slowly. You shouldn’t trust that any more than your scammy mechanic.
Yeah medications never have unintended side effects that come out years later, and nobody has ever put potassium cyanide in Aspirin bottles, great example.
Yeah like a Tesla, huh? New as hell, burning people alive in crashes. Recalls happen all the time, and often don’t when they should, you’re sure there won’t be one for yours?
Hell no.
Very limited, never stored, one device I don’t do anything sketchy on. Usually I just go to the bank, like, the building.
Even people who aren’t lying to you may be wrong, it can happen at any level of knowledge or expertise.
And just to remind you, I’m not talking about “vaccines,” I’m talking about “just trust me bro” w.r.t most things.
It’s not don’t trust me bro lol. You are welcome to read the data yourself. The problem is you likely do not have the prerequisite knowledge to understand it.
May I remind you that I’m responding to:
As a concept in particular. That is very much “trust me bro.”
I’m not sure what studies in particular say “you should trust ‘experts’ unquestioningly bro,” so I have a sneaking suspicion you’re referring to the thing I said I wasn’t talking about specifically EIGHT TIMES NOW. Sorry I had to get loud, but it seems nobody can hear around here.
Now, accepting that this vaccine was created in a joint effort by Jesus, Muhammed, and YHWH, OF COURSE it is unquestionable. HOWEVER: Everything ELSE in life, you can’t necessarily trust the experts LIKE YOU CAN ON THE HOLY ROMAN COVID VACCINE!! LOOK EVERYONE I’M SAYING IT’S THE BEST EVER, IT’S DELICIOUS I’M EATING ONE RIGHT NOW!!NN!!N
Hopefully I’ve signaled my unquestioning loyalty on THIS TOPIC well enough to make you realize other things exist? Have I bowed enough that we can have an actual conversation now?
In this particular case, you don’t trust your gov, your countries scientists, the rest of the world’s scientist corpus. But a bench of folks on Internet with 0 medical background telling you the vaccine is dangerous and the Covid-19 is not that much, that’s clearly something you should take in account.
Did I really have to tap the sign for the fifteenth time? I ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED THE COVID VACCINE IS THE BEST THING JESUS EVER MADE EVER, BUT “JUST TRUST ME BRO” AS A RULE ISN’T ALWAYS THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION. Literally fifteen different times I’ve clarified this now.
Ffs.
You get in a car absolutely confident it will not explode after 2km because a small group of engineers you’ve never heard of designed, tested and qualified that engine. In case of an accident, you assume the airbag will deploy because a small group of engineers you’ve never heard of designed, tested and qualified the airbag trigger sensor and the airbag itself. Are you an engine expert? Are you an airbag expert?
You get in a plane assuming it flies because a small group of engineers you’ve never heard of designed, tested and qualified the plane to fly. Are you an aeronautic expert??
But if a group of doctors develop a vaccine that is then tested under supervision of thousands of their peer, with thousands more checking the data and claiming they look good, including most likely your own physician, suddenly it’s too much uncertainty and you need to become an expert in the field to trust them.
Only when it was developed in extremely short terms as emergency measure instead of in regular way. Is this “little nuance” really so unobvious it needs to be pointed out.
What do you know about the regular way? What corner was cut for the Covid-19 vaccine?
https://www.cgdev.org/blog/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-was-fastest-global-history-low-income-countries-were-left-behind
So my personal standard “lets wait 2 decades” isn’t even that big, because average is 4 decades.
I don’t know that in detail and I didn’t research it. In my country this virus wasn’t such an overwhelming question of life and death as it was in US, apparently. There was no dilemma of “vax risk vs covid death”, it was a bit scary in the news at first, but almost invisible flu that not many really reported at all in media and I don’t personally know anyone who was even sure they had it or died from it. From this thread I get it that it was some kind of plague in US where literally everybody were dying left and right from this virus. In this context your collective defense of vaccine and peer pressure on ever questioning it makes some sense. In my case, it wasn’t even important enough to research vaccine situation, it’s just more reasonable to question the vaccine in absence of longer timeframes of data, because the virus itself isn’t even scary enough. I expect scary enough virus to be observable empirically and socially, not only in numbers given from above.
We’ve got years of data showing they are safe at this point and given the massive deployment, serious issues would have become apparent by now.
!remindme 2 decades
Make that 80 years, just to be sure.
“We’ve waited 100 years, and ALL people who took the vaccine 100 years ago are dead! If that’s not a clue…”
When the covid vaccines came out, the scaremongers said everyone will start dying from the them in a month. That didn’t happen. Then they said just you wait and see, it’ll happen next month. Nope. Then it was just wait six months, then a year, then two years… now it’s up to 20 years. Why would anyone of reasonable intelligence believe it this time?
MRNA vaccines were first trialled in the 1990s on animals. No animal died prematurely from them.
There’s never been a vaccine where side effects arose decades later. Serious vaccine side effects are detected within days or weeks of vaccination.
So what evidence do you have that the covid vaccines are truly different? Zero.
Ironically, you’re more likely to die earlier by living a life stressing about people dying earlier from vaccines.
Yes, some healthy scepticism is great and very valuable. But, you do need to put some trust in experts, they are the ones who know the field well enough to share the important parts. When it comes to the mRNA vaccines, they were understood well enough to be almost certain that the risks of catching COVID far outweigh the risks of the vaccine, especially once you consider heard immunity and the impact it has on people at risk who can’t take the vaccine. So at that point it becomes clearly the safest choice to get everyone to take it.
I feel so guilty, I will totally buy into this blatant propaganda now. Or not.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352250X22000719
Mind-reading been real for decades btw, there are like dozens of ways to do it at this point. Starting from capturing and decoding brain waves and ending with injecting nano particles into blood that go into brain.
So why not read the minds of scientists to see if the vaccines are legit or not?
Tinfoil analogy was irrelevant to original topic and my response is also irrelevant to original topic, and instead addresses foolishness of tinfoil meme in this day and age. Anyway, here you go:
Oh… so scientists themselves might not be aware of potential problems with the vaccines, but complete fucking morons such as yourself and that worm-brained idiot in front of the US health department, who know NOTHING about the subject (not even the most basic scientific concepts) are supposed to be the ones who know?
Yeah, you can go right ahead and fuck off.
I didn’t say I know about problems that scientists don’t know about. I’m saying that I don’t want to take the risks because I consider it too early to be confident they’re safe for me. And there’s been way too many people that got weird blood clots, cancers and what not soon after taking the jab, that needs to be sorted out as well.
Get off the computer and go live in the real world.
Herd immunity is a real effect. If vaccines help you not catch the disease, then an unvaccinated person is less likely to catch the disease in a population with a high vaccination rate. Because the disease doesn’t spread as much.
If you can lower the infection rate so that on average, each sick person results in less than one other sick person, infections die out instead of growing. That is “herd immunity.”
I believe in the quoted piece they refer to an idea that people who are both in high risk group but also can’t take the vaccine because of their conditions will have it harder because of mutations happening to the virus in people who decided not to take it but have it easy and develop natural immunity to it.
Even if a leaky vaccine leads to a more virulent strain (it didn’t for covid as far as I know), if heard immunity is achieved that makes it hard to spread it might never make it to a vulnerable individual.
No one quoted any piece. Heard immunity is a fairly simple concept about preventing the spread by having most people immune to it, so babies and others who can’t be vaccinated are unlikely to ever be exposed to it.
It’s not about mutations, but it is another issue if you allow something to spread it will have more opportunities to mutate and become more virulent
Covid has evolved to barely provide any immunity. Up to 70 percent up to 9 months. People catch it several times a year and long covid is as much a risk as it ever was.
No herd immunity.
I’ll grant you the effect is less because of the mutations (and I would be interested in seeing a paper about it, I might have to look up some research), but it also doesn’t help that the vaccination rate is and has been so low because of misinformation, to say the least.
Well it’s pretty much proven now isn’t it given it had one of the largest mass deployments of a vaccine tech in history. It wasn’t even rushed, it had been in development for years.
Learn
I know concept isn’t new, they’re still not as widely used and this particular one was rushed and only have few years of data behind it. I’m only comfortable with something that has at least few decades and few generations of data behind.
It wasn’t rushed, it got priority on funding and testing. It’s an example of how much can be done and how little overall time it could take if we allocate resources correctly.
Name checks out.