Am I crazy that those sound reasonable IT manager level things? If company size is 100-200 endpoints, the IT manager should understand all of these, if he/she doesn’t, I would not want to work at that IT team
There’s not enough hours in day to do all those tasks that this will entail. You’ll constantly be dragged between different domains nd have no time to focus on anything
Source: I’ve done this job before. Company wasn’t even big either. Just 30 people or so
Honestly for 30 people it’s understandable, hiring properly would be like 10% of the company already lol
When you consider that IT is used by everyone and often the entire company is built on IT and communication i would hire properly
Depends if the company is growing or just a small company
It manager level for entry level pay
110k usd is entry level pay? I hate america so much its unreal.
I’ve worked at places with <50 people where the 2 IT people had “manager” titles, but they were just “the IT people” in practice - one handled user stuff, the other was focused on the client-facing infrastructure.
Our lone HR person was also the “HR manager”, we had a single “accounting manager”, and a couple more like that. Some departments ended up expanding and the “managers” did end up with direct reports, but that’s kinda just how small businesses work, this posting sounds a lot like that.
Have you seen pay these days? Where are you getting 110k entry level?
If it’s an onsite position, it depends on living costs.
Some people are claiming 3k for rent is the minimum in the area. Just north of Beverly Hills.
That’s half the salary, just for a studio apartment. Then there’s another chunk for taxes and they’re left with 1-2k for general expenses and living life.
Salaries isn’t a simple thing you can move from one area to another
California has a minimum wage for software employees to be salaried and not pay them overtime (salaried exempt). It’s about $123k. I’ve never seen an entry level position that didn’t expect overtime, so $110k is actually low unless it’s a part time internship.
Also leaving that link there for anyone who might have just discovered their employer is doing wage theft and owes them a lot of money.
Ok anywhere with a cost of living that isn’t California
The pay scale people have become accustomed to is absurd.
I guess where I work, if you’re on carpet you’re 80-110k salary for jobs like purchasing, inventory etc not engineers or supoort. if you work in shipping or manufacturing you’re around 65-85k depending on experience
Must be nice
“Manager” in this context generally doesn’t mean someone who has people reporting to them, it means someone who manages the IT. It can absolutely be an early-career role. See also: equipment manager, facilities manager etc.
You’re not crazy, it’s just that posts like this are generally tribal. Nobody here actually knows what the day-to-day of that job is, they just want a pretext to vent about their own experiences of being asked to do work that they didn’t want to do.
also potentially unpopular opinion: I’ve encountered about as many engineers over the years that were under-skilled for their positions, than ones who were competent. Whenever I see posters whine about how unreasonable the requirements for a job posting is, I always instinctively read it in one of the former’s voices…
Would be an OK salary for most of Europe. Most countries here have relatively solid health care insurance, affordable education and a pension fund included, so that some of the biggest costs of living in the US don’t even make a dent in the salary.
I’m in Sweden, this would be an amazing salary. I make maybe 40% of that, and I’m pretty well paid.
Same!
But you have a functional social safety net, insurance and retirement covered with your taxes. We don’t and is horribly expensive to fork $24K a year to have access to health with a $7K deductible while thinking that if you get fired the equivalent of UB pay is $226/wk after you present substantiation to the state that you’re trying to get work. On top of that insurance is tied to employment and that heavily influences work mobility and care as if anyone gets anything catastrophic loses the job, the insurance and all your savings.
But you have a functional social safety net
I grew up in poverty, I know what this social safety net looked like 20 years ago. It’s been hollowed out by a decade of alt-right governance since. They’ve pushed the non-white welfare king/queen narrative hard.
Living on subsistence minimum isn’t really a comfortable life. You have to constantly apply for it and get scrutinised, and sometimes you get automatically denied because the government has applied a quota that försäkringskassan has to fill; it’s luck of the draw.
It’s certainly not something I’d ever view as a nice stress-free fallback to recover from, it’s a full-time job in and of itself, and that’s not counting the critique you have to put up with from society for using the system as it is intended.
insurance and retirement covered with your taxes.
Ish. Current retirees are covered by current taxpayers. My retirement will be covered by future taxpayers. This has lead to the retirement age being bumped up a couple of times the past few years, because there’s not enough taxes coming in to cover retirement. I don’t expect to ever actually retire.
The average pension income currently is 16400 crowns a month before taxes. My rent is 8.4k and it goes up with several hundred a year. Pensions generally remain fairly static.
By insurance I guess you mean healthcare. This is largely true, we have a high-cost protection, and that includes visits so if you buy enough meds or visit the doctors enough each year, the high cost protection kicks in, it’s currently at approximately 3000 crowns.
My a-kassa isn’t free, nor is it tax funded. I personally pay for that on a monthly basis. It’s also tied to you looking for work.
There are upsides and downsides to everything. Things get bad here, too.
Great perspective, thank you for sharing that effectively not everything is perfect or works as intended.
I see your struggle and hope we all can make it right for us, our kids and their kids, thank you for fighting the good fight.
Yeah. I mean I’m grateful I struggle with things here, because I’ve seen what it can look like in the U.S. - visited a dear friend in 2019, and despite having two people work four jobs they still couldn’t really make ends meet. It’s heartwrenching.
Struggle is always struggle. I hope things improve for all of us.
I worked a short stint as a network administrator for a company I did not like at all. I figured it’d be a foot in the door, but boy was I wrong. I didn’t last 6 months, I was doing work of a network tech, network admin, security tech for door locks and cameras, a custodian, and general computer tech in all that. It was a VASTLY underpaid position for the work.
Found the listing for anyone curious about the company. It’s a recruitment company recruiting for a law firm.
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/information-technology-manager-at-bookman-consulting-4453231245
Surely a law firm can afford to pay each position properly
I’ve worked for some, and I don’t think they get big money unless they are a big company.
Probably. Also wonder if they’re paying the employee directly or if the recruitment company is leeching a bunch off the top
I’m going to start a recruiting company to find this recruiting company a better job listing.
This is basically my current job. Almost the same pay (120k) in the Seattle area.
I work 50-70 hours a week
You’re worth $200k in that HCOL area.
Honestly, this is what we currently have at our mid sized company. We get paid dogshit, nobody has a dedicated position we’re just all “IT” and we do everything to keep shit running
Wait this is just my current job but with double the pay…
fuck I gotta get a new job
Yeah, you need a new job. This is also my current job for not enough pay. You’re getting shafted.
With that being said, this isn’t really 3 jobs like the post implies. If you’ve worked with data integrations before, you know how SQL, APIs and cloud solutions interact.
Shhh don’t let hr know, or your manager
Sammmmmme
same here, ouch
Meanwhile CEO makes 3mil a year while planning to
sellmerge the company with another one and get the golden parachute.this sounds… entirely reasonable? like, had it not been in california that’s about what i expect a position with those responsibilities to pay. the median income here is just below $40k a year and for an it manager these are all completely expected skills. i don’t get it.
- The responsibilities are way outside of a typical it admin job
- Starting salary for a junior dev/sure/ops in the area is 90k+
i’d disagree on the first one, that’s just par for the course here. and 90k is senior staff engineer territory here. that puts you in the 99.9th percentile.
I’m guessing It would put you in the bottom 10% in the area mentioned in the job listing.
You probably don’t live in America or are underpaid with all this remote work out there.
There’s bottom of the barrel for any tech management. Our jira pencil pushers get 130-50…
Staff engineers with actual technical skill clear 200.
There is also the fact that you can tell your actually working 50 hours a week from this post if you read between the lines. Most of my tech friends and myself are doing a solid 25 hours of real work and jiggling the mouse from home for the rest.
I don’t get it. Everyone in IT is screaming about the employment crisis. I have a friend who can’t even get a job that pays 40k € with a Bachelor’s in CS and two years of semi-relevant experience. Are things really that much better in the US that you can get paid over 200k for a job similar to the one in the OP?
Like, I have a similar amount of responsibilities to the OP and closing in on a decade of experience, get paid in your “jira pencil pusher” range and yet consider myself lucky compared to my friends in IT. Granted this is remote work in europe with interesting technical work and open-source aspects, but still…
There’s largely still above average working conditions for the people that do land a job in tech, but right now the job security is rather low.
The thing is, if you’re managing an important project. The companies want to pay extra, to ensure they’re having decent people hired and have their time if something breaks out of hours.
But remote hirers, do also factor regional factors into account. Most US companies okay with remote workers, will have payranges per state. Most European companies, have at least pay ranges per country. You’re getting paid more in Denmark than you’d be in Hungary as an example. To account for cost of living as well as local competition
Yes. But it won’t be written like this.
A company that values it’s tech workers and that has a decent salary will write a better post, then have you work 3 jobs, because they’ll have other decent tech managers to write it.
This post was written by HR at after a Google post for "good it manager skills’ for a cfo who doesn’t understand a word and just wants it done for cheap.
Younger cs students are just fucked BTW. Despite the screeches AI bad, it’s not. It is eating up junior coding jobs and I’m not sure what to say to them or about how new people will learn to code when I have as many agents as I can muster up in my brains context. From a pure velocity perspective there is just no way to compete. I’d never choose, training a junior dev over AI even in it’s current state. It’s just not efficient to train someone to hand code and learn about what will break, who is going to do stupid shit, architecture, etc. but you don’t learn it well being an operator.
well duh. i’m in the top 5% of earners here, and i make just shy of €60k a year before taxes.
You won’t get away with 100k if printer issues are included… your soul and those of the other employees would be a start.
God, I hate printers.
Don’t work with me, I manage 60+ across 2 sites with 3 separate-function print servers.
Anyone else here still manage a fleet of dot matrix??? We’ve got about a dozen left 😅
Yeah no shit it’s an it manager role
Yeah, it doesn’t sound like 3 jobs at all. It’s as close to a textbook definition of what you’d expect an IT Manager to do as I can think of.
Kids these days don’t know I guess
I really thought the response was an AI suggestion at first glance; that would’ve been hilarious.
I usually reply to shit job offers and tell them why it’s shit.
Even when I’m not interested in the job, if it’s anything but full time work from home I’ll let them know I’m only considering ft wfh so that they either raise their offer or reconsider their in-office requirement for the next person that’s actually interested.
anything to do with printers better be 200k or higher
The funny thing about jobs is that demand for the job tends to scale with pay. Of all the IT positions in an office, the guy fixing the printers is probably earning the least.
My job in data analytics occasionally involves pulling printing volume data. Does that count as “anything to do with printers”?
Because fuck trying to aggregate by printer location when the location string is manually entered by humans with different “standards” and varying adherence even to their stated standard.
that sounds like a nightmare! yes that counts
A German three letter agency had a similar ad. They were looking for someone who was proficient in encryption, hacking, protocols on Windows, Mac and Linux, and a few other things in that area. Experienced both in programming and leadership. And as a cherry on the top, this person would have to have knowledge about all the legal aspects of all of this, too.
All for a midrange bureaucrat salary. A security expert commented on this something like “if i had someone with that kind of skill set and experience, I would hire him out for a daily fee about as high as their offered monthly salary.”
Many years ago I got offered 20% over minimum wage to manage, among other things, all email servers of a large banking association representing >90% of a national market.
It was less than what a Tesco cashier was making in the area.
When I was a student, I already had my Novell admin certificate, so it got some jobs on the side. Someone pointed me to a law firm where the owner wanted their PCs networked. We met, he showed me the list of hardware he wanted to buy - everything top notch, big server, new PCs with all bells, whistles and gongs back then, 19in rack for all the necessities, etc. That list was an offer from an expensive office outfitter he knew.
He “just” needed someone to install the stuff. I could easily have done that, but all he offered was a kind of internship. Oh what I could learn from working with top of the pop equipment! I told him I was here because it already knew everything that was needed. He then offered me that I could take the old PCs as “compensation”.
I left, and warned others not to waste time with that idiot.
And people still get mad when we give honest feedback about compensation.
Shout-out to the recruiter who tried to convince me to take a 60k paycut because nobody will pay my current rate ( the one I was already being paid ). I strive to reach your level of audacity one day.
Eh I had a job like this. Was for a small company. If that was a large corp id say fuck no but if small company? Its fine.
Exactly. Company makes doors, by hand. 10 employees total and 2 computers. Easiest job you’ve ever had and you actually feel guilty every time they pay you for the first few months.
