oh god. Another one of these. I’ll bite. How is China imperialist? Bonus points if you don’t mention Uyghurs because that’s not imperialism and the zenz/ US propaganda has been widely debunked.
Depends on the definition. In Lenin’s Imperialism, the highest form of capitalism, he defines five criteria:
And so, without forgetting the conditional and relative value of all definitions in general, which can never embrace all the concatenations of a phenomenon in its complete development, we must give a definition of imperialism that will include the following five of its basic features:
the concentration of production and capital has developed to such a high stage that it has created monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life;
the merging of bank capital with industrial capital, and the creation, on the basis of this “finance capital,” of a financial oligarchy;
the export of capital as distinguished from the export of commodities acquires exceptional importance;
the formation of international monopolist capitalist combines which share the world among themselves, and
the territorial division of the whole world among the
biggest capitalist powers is completed.
1 and 2 apply with some caveats, 3 and 4 are a yes (WTO, UN, BRICS, etc), and 5 should be seen through a soft-power neo colonialist lens with China’s influence in Africa for example.
This is not meant to be anti-China or whatever, anything China has done pales in comparison with US imperialism, just that I don’t think it’s a completely baseless accusation.
“Widely debunked” is a funny way to say “I really like to downplay this”, but excluding the active genocide, China is actively yoinking and creating islands, debt trapping countries, etc
Reeducation, or even whatever label you want to put on what China is doing with Uyghur Muslims is NOT genocide and not even close. And this post is about imperialism, not genocide, and genocide IS happening to Muslim countries with the direct support of almost every western country. Debt trapping which countries? Taiwan? Snatching up islands? Wtf are you talking about?
Still a lot better than what the USA does - better to build out country’s infrastructure and then hold them ransom with the debt than bombing schools, but it doesn’t make them good or beyond criticism.
They frequently do, they can’t afford to run endless charity though, so loans with few restrictions are often used to help speed up development in a more sustainable way.
But they haven’t.
Right now PRC holds all the assets and gets all the revenue, and laos holds all the debt and all the risks, for 30 years. China has used this to grant themselves positions of control over large parts of the infrastructure planning.
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Reeducation camps are an effort to destroy Uighur culture and are absolutely a genocide. At least 4 of those 5 conditions are met. You don’t need gas chambers or mass extermination, that’s just one way genocide can manifest.
Detainees had no privacy. They were monitored at all times, including when they ate, slept, and
used the toilet. They were forbidden to talk freely with other detainees. When detainees were
permitted to speak – to other detainees, guards, or teachers – they were required to speak in Mandarin Chinese, a language many of them, especially older people and those from more rural
areas in Xinjiang, did not speak or understand. Detainees were physically punished if they spoke
in a language other than Mandarin.
There was insufficient food, water, exercise, healthcare, sanitary and hygienic conditions, fresh
air, and exposure to natural light. Detainees had draconian restrictions placed on their ability to
urinate and defecate. All detainees were required to “work” one- or two-hour shifts monitoring their
cellmates every night. Many former detainees reported that during the first few days, weeks, or
sometimes months after arriving at the internment camps, they were forced to do nothing but sit
still – often in terribly uncomfortable positions – for nearly the entire day.
At some point after arriving nearly all detainees were subjected to highly regimented classes.
The typical schedule included three or four hours of classes after breakfast. Then detainees had
lunch and a short “rest”, which often involved sitting still on a stool or with their heads still on
their desks. After lunch there was another three or four hours of classes and then dinner, followed
by a few hours to sit or kneel on a stool and silently “review” the day’s material or to watch more
“educational” videos. At nearly all times during classes, detainees were required to look straight
ahead and not to speak with their classmates. Classes often involved memorizing and reciting “red”
songs – that is, revolutionary songs that praise the CCP and the People’s Republic of China.
Source I highly recommend downloading and reading the whole report.
On December 9, 2021, the Tribunal delivered its judgment. In its judgment, the Tribunal established the following facts. Hundreds of thousands to over one million were arbitrarily detained and exposed to cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment. Testimony described overcrowded cells, sometimes holding around 50 detainees in roughly 22 square meters (or 237 square feet), with little space to lie down. Detainees used buckets as toilets, monitored by Closed-Circuit Television (CCTV), with no privacy.10
Detainees were tortured without any legitimate reasons. Witnesses identified a range of torture practices, such as fingernail removal, beatings, extended immobilization in “tiger chairs,” immersion in cold water, and confinement in cages too small to stand or lie down. Multiple testimonies described long-term heavy shackles and restraints, in some cases lasting for months.11
Widespread sexual violence occurred, affecting both male and female detainees. One account described the gang rape of a young woman, about 20 or 21, in front of roughly 100 other detainees forced to watch. Female detainees faced sexual assaults with electric devices and metal rods. Some were raped by people who paid for access to detention facilities. Witnesses reported severe food deprivation (sometimes withheld as a punitive measure), solitary confinement in dark or always-lit cells, long-term sleep deprivation, and humiliation.12
Deaths were linked to abuses in detention. Testimony indicated that younger detainees were occasionally taken from cells and subsequently disappeared. However, there is no evidence of systematic mass killings. In fact, many detainees were eventually released. Some were released after three to six months, others after years of imprisonment or repeated torture, though often only to be detained again.13
Witnesses described various forms of nonphysical mistreatment, including mandatory political indoctrination where detainees were required to sing pro-CCP songs under threat of punishment. Detainees were given unidentified pills or injections, sometimes causing reproductive or psychological changes. Witnesses described unexplained blood draws and medical procedures. Testimonies included coerced abortions with some late terms, and claims of newborns killed after delivery.14
Good luck convincing tankies with that definition. They will just claim the definition doesn’t count because “the UN is a Western imperialist facade pushing US propaganda.” The same goes for any source that doesn’t agree with their ideals, for that matter.
You can literally go to xianxang today and talk to Uyghur Muslims. If that’s genocide yall don’t wanna hear about black people in USA… You’re all fuckin insane lol
If I were a zionist, I’d definitely use this sort of argument when talking about Palestinians. Lol you can go to West Bank and talk to them, therefore there’s no genocide.
No, comparing what’s happening in the West Bank to fucking China is laughable and you know it. It’s disingenuous at best and at worst you’re willfully lying by comparing a real genocide to fucking Uyghurs. Try walking into Gaza like that.
China is not debt trapping poor African nations. We can see that this isn’t the case when we can observe countries in BRI engaging in rapid development and industrializing, and this is confirmed by China forgiving tons of debt. The goal of China isn’t to make countries reliant on them, or to earn money from debt, it’s because China gains personally through mutual development. Here are some articles debunking the “debt trap” myth:
There are many more examples I can use. China isn’t doing this out of the goodness of their own heart, but because they stand to gain from mutual development. A more developed global south means China is less reliant on the US Empire as a customer, provides new avenues to facilitate trade, and creates more markets for customers. The west harvests the global south for cheap labor and resources, and we can see hard comparisons in data between BRI participants and those imperialized by the west to see fundamentally different results.
12 dash line, Belt and road is just neo-colonialism debt traps and soft power grabs, consistent threats to the sovereignty of Bhutan, Taiwan, the Phillipines and more. Financial and material aid to both sides of the conflict in Myanmar, weapon sales to Russia for use in Ukraine, etc.
You’re either incredibly dishonest or incredibly fucking stupid
You can look up anything in that comment. Very easily. The follow up comment is “you made that all up” which seems would require some level of proof, seeing as the other commenter gave examples which are verifiable.
Wow four whole “sources”! Too bad they completely fail to prove any of the inane claims presented here, as usual
First link: “China takes a multipronged approach to secure its investments in Myanmar”, from Janes , “The source for commercially available military intelligence”. Contains exactly zero evidence to support the claim that China is supporting both sides of the conflict in Myanmar, and is published by an MIC data broker owned by a fucking private equity firm.
Second link: “The Nine-Dash Line in the South China Sea: History, Status, and Implications”, full version paywalled, summary is uselessly vague but that’s ok because the original comment we’re discussing didn’t even present any claims, just says “12 dash line” which is also not even the name lol
Third link: “Persecution of Uyghurs in Xinjiang:Torture, Crimes Against Humanity, and Genocide” from the Human Rights Research Center lol. And what are their sources? Oh, just the CIA! Totally credible lol, unlike the unified majority of muslim nations on earth
apparently
Fourth link: “‘Tidal wave’: How 75 nations face Chinese debt crisis in 2025”, you clearly didn’t bother reading past the headline or you’d have known that this article directly contradicts the claims you’re defending
From the article: "Rhodium consulting group looked at 38 Chinese debt renegotiations with 24 developing countries in 2019 and concluded that Beijing’s leverage was limited, with many of the renegotiations resolved in favour of the borrower.
According to Rhodium, developing countries had restructured roughly $50bn of Chinese loans in the decade before its 2019 study was published, with loan extensions, cheaper financing and debt forgiveness the most frequent outcomes.
Elsewhere, a 2020 study by the China Africa Research Initiative at Johns Hopkins University found that, between 2000 and 2019, China cancelled $3.4bn of debt in Africa and a further $15bn was refinanced. No assets were seized.
In 2022, the Debt Justice Group estimated that African governments owed three times more to private financial groups than to China, charging double the interest in the process.
“Developing country debt to China is less than what is owed to both private bondholders and multilateral development banks (MDBs),” says Kevin Gallagher, director of the Boston University Global Development Policy Center.
“So, Lowy’s focus on China lacks context. The truth is, even if you remove China from the creditor picture, lots of poor countries would still be in debt distress,” Gallagher told Al Jazeera.
A crucial aspect about Chinese lending,” said Gallagher, “is that it tends to be long-term and growth enhancing. That’s precisely why a lot of it is focused on infrastructure investment. Western lenders tend to get in and out faster and charge higher rates.”
You’re either an incurable moron or a fed, embarassing either way
China is not debt trapping poor African nations. We can see that this isn’t the case when we can observe countries in BRI engaging in rapid development and industrializing, and this is confirmed by China forgiving tons of debt. The goal of China isn’t to make countries reliant on them, or to earn money from debt, it’s because China gains personally through mutual development. Here are some articles debunking the “debt trap” myth:
There are many more examples I can use. China isn’t doing this out of the goodness of their own heart, but because they stand to gain from mutual development. A more developed global south means China is less reliant on the US Empire as a customer, provides new avenues to facilitate trade, and creates more markets for customers. The west harvests the global south for cheap labor and resources, and we can see hard comparisons in data between BRI participants and those imperialized by the west to see fundamentally different results.
Have you ever asked Tibetan people what they believe? There is literally not any significant Tibet independence movement within China, Tibet is its own autonomous region in China with special rights and higher autonomy than most other provinces, and the culture, religion and language are respected.
What… what do you think modern Chinese history is? While it’s widely regarded as over, no peace treaty was ever signed. And while the KMT dictatorship lost power across the Taiwan islands in 1981, the resulting pseudo-government that formed afterwards also failed to introduce any cessation of hostilities. Hell right up until 1973 the KMT still wanted to invade the mainland again.
This war, like the Korean war, never ended. There was no formal end to either war, simply a continued pause in the hostilities. Worse, for your position, there is no active ceasefire agreement between the PRC and the pseudo-government on the island. The sole reason hostilities stopped in 1965 was because the US dedicated a carrier group to the area (and all the CIA-backed KMT soldiers that sheltered in Burma were finally routed and slowed their terror attacks down to focus on running drugs). At this point the PRC has dedicated itself to a peaceful unification, which has been the PRC’s position since 1965 when it was clear the few thousand remaining KMT soldiers could do no harm to mainland Chinese citizens and the need to be ever ready for war was taking far too many resources.
I’m aware.
But practically, that’s a difference without distinction. The majority of the rest of the world considers Taiwan to be a sovereign nation, and Taiwan has been acting as such for a long time. Functionally, that argument is the same as Russia is making with Ukraine, and technicalities over academic language doesn’t change that.
North Korea and South Korea are de facto separate countries, even though their civil war technically didn’t end. If the south invaded the North, that’d be the same.
If you think what China does to Muslims is bad you should see what Taiwan was like before China invaded. Seriously look up how they treated their criminals.
Damn, that’s racist. Can’t help yourself but call them yellow, can you?
It’s not imperialist to liberate your own country from serfdom or slavery. Would you look at the northern states in the US liberating the slaves in the south and accuse people who supported that of “White Man’s Burden” shit? What a load of racist bullshit and slavery apologia. The fuck is wrong with you?
Are you seriously trying to pretend to be a leftist while defending serfdom and calling Asians yellow?
Tibet was part of China since at least the 17th century. After the fall of the Qing, countless little warlord states sprung up all over China, including Tibet. For some reason, some Westerners decided that one of those warlord states was legitimate. Don’t know why you never talk about all the other ones.
I say some Westerners, because the only state that ever actually recognized Tibet as independent was Mongolia. The US fully supported Chinese claims over Tibet before the communists won, and never recognized it as independent even afterwards, nor has any other country. Even Taiwan claims, and has always claimed, Tibet as a part of China.
But you don’t know shit about that. You saw a slogan saying “Free Tibet!” and latched onto it with zero knowledge of the actual history, because it sounded nice and China Bad (those “yellows!”)
I’ll tell you what doesn’t sound so nice: Being forced to work to death and dying at 30. Which is exactly how things were in Tibet before the revolution reached their region. Under Communist leadership, the government poured resources into it and other poor remote regions and doubled the life expectancy. By any objective metric, quality of life greatly improved in Tibet once people were liberated from living in serfdom under, again, a literal theocracy.
By contrast, Texas had only been part of the US for 16 years when they tried to secede to maintain their system of slavery. Not that it really matters, but 16 years is a hell of lot flimsier than 200+ years in terms of sovereignty. What does really matter is the absolutely deplorable, unforgivable conditions that the lamas (like the Confederate slavers) kept the people in, which again, you don’t know shit about, because you didn’t do your goddamn homework.
It helps if you insist the natural state of Chinese territory is a balkinized patchwork of ethnic enclaves fighting border wars “Romance of the Three Kingdoms” style, and the amalgamation of territory over 3000 years of dynastic rule gets dumped on the head of the current government.
Bonus points if you don’t mention Uyghurs
Uyghurs are the only Muslim group that the NAFO crowd are allowed to empathize with. And only when they’re local to the Tarim Basin. God help you if you’re a Uyghur living in Europe or Southeast Asia or the United States because they’re not welcome.
the zenz/ US propaganda
Mentioning the name of Adrian Zenz, the history of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation (and where it gets its money), or any choice passages from the book Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation marks you out as a Wumao Far-Left Ultra-Stalinist Botfarm with cooties and a stupid face.
I’ll bite too. I live in the Philippines. I’m too stressed to even think about how impossibly cheap Chinese imports have displaced local industries. Walmart style.
We have a long mostly harmless history with local Chinese entrepreneurs, but I’m talking about CCP-sponsored conglomerates and drug, gambling, and troll farms planted just around metros.
It’s mostly soft power and undercover for now, but if the US isn’t looking, we’d be Belarus to Russia.
Sike it’s not all softpower, we have the fucking South China Sea.
China literally has a well established history of debt forgiving, you’re projecting what the western IMF actually does.
economic imperialism
China’s trade balance is net positive towards exports by like $1tn yearly? It’s literally not extracting the resources from anyone else, you’re literally making this up, projection again
install mass murdering/genocidal politicians and spies
More projection. Suharto in your neighbor’s nation was propped up by the US, he was the one mass-murdering communists in Indonesia.
kill unarmed fishermen and get away with it
More projection, the US was doing this recently against Venezuelan fishermen, literally fucking bombing people. You’re falling for US propaganda.
ram our coast guard boats with their navy ships
Oh no, a sovereign nation doesn’t want its seas to be blockaded by US-aligned forces!
smuggle drugs and human trafficking
Again projection, the ones with the opium plantations in Afghanistan were the US, there’s no evidence of any such systematic acts by China, drugs are extremely prohibited in China.
the thing with AI data centers in the USA, but replace AI with illegal online gambling. Oh, and promote gambming addicition, of course
Not aware of this, but again, you’re literally spelling out the name of the nation whose imperialism you’re projecting.
You’ve been propagandized against China when it was literally the US maintaining a military dictatorship in your neighboring fucking country killing a million communists!!
With all due fucking respect, this is not coming from US propaganda or making shit up. This is coming from MY daily life experience as a lower class around the metro. Most of this shit are barely documented online so I’m not surprised if anything here is news to you.
Debts forgiven? Not without secret payment of land, water, and letting in CCP-owned companies. Within a decade, I can no longer buy local-grown produce from public markets, and no longer buy local-made clothes in my hometown who historically had the largest textile industry. It’s all Chinese imports and surplus.
And it’ not difficult to understand anti-CCP ≠ pro-US. Literally nothing in my comments are “projecting” or defensive of the US. The US installed the Marcoses, CCP installed the Dutertes. Now that both have seats, they’re fucking us up undercovers, scrambling for who keeps the throne for themselves.
And stating the obvious here, China is not communist. Both have been secretly genociding rural and indegenous minorities in the name of “culling communists.” The general public is even barely aware of this, it just happened under our noses and silenced with little discussion.
oh god. Another one of these. I’ll bite. How is China imperialist? Bonus points if you don’t mention Uyghurs because that’s not imperialism and the zenz/ US propaganda has been widely debunked.
Depends on the definition. In Lenin’s Imperialism, the highest form of capitalism, he defines five criteria:
1 and 2 apply with some caveats, 3 and 4 are a yes (WTO, UN, BRICS, etc), and 5 should be seen through a soft-power neo colonialist lens with China’s influence in Africa for example.
This is not meant to be anti-China or whatever, anything China has done pales in comparison with US imperialism, just that I don’t think it’s a completely baseless accusation.
What isn’t a baseless accusation, are you talking about Taiwan? Or Tibet?
Anyone following the thread can see that the “accusation” being referred to is China being imperialist.
I believe China tries to somehow argue its not imperialistic, its multipolar, which honestly is just a spit in the face.
(A very good critique of multipolarism from a far, far far left source can be found here: https://spectrejournal.com/against-multipolar-imperialism/)
“Widely debunked” is a funny way to say “I really like to downplay this”, but excluding the active genocide, China is actively yoinking and creating islands, debt trapping countries, etc
Reeducation, or even whatever label you want to put on what China is doing with Uyghur Muslims is NOT genocide and not even close. And this post is about imperialism, not genocide, and genocide IS happening to Muslim countries with the direct support of almost every western country. Debt trapping which countries? Taiwan? Snatching up islands? Wtf are you talking about?
Debt trapping, for example, laos.
Still a lot better than what the USA does - better to build out country’s infrastructure and then hold them ransom with the debt than bombing schools, but it doesn’t make them good or beyond criticism.
The PRC is not debt trapping Laos, both are socialist countries with good relations.
Then China should forgive the debt.
They frequently do, they can’t afford to run endless charity though, so loans with few restrictions are often used to help speed up development in a more sustainable way.
But they haven’t.
Right now PRC holds all the assets and gets all the revenue, and laos holds all the debt and all the risks, for 30 years. China has used this to grant themselves positions of control over large parts of the infrastructure planning.
China does frequently forgive loans. As socialist countries, China and Laos have strong friendship and cooperative ties. Laos is not in any danger from the loans, and has been steadily developing partially with the assistance of said loans.
Source
Reeducation camps are an effort to destroy Uighur culture and are absolutely a genocide. At least 4 of those 5 conditions are met. You don’t need gas chambers or mass extermination, that’s just one way genocide can manifest.
Source I highly recommend downloading and reading the whole report.
Source
You don’t get to be against one genocide and not another. Stop being a piece of shit shill and do some research.
Good luck convincing tankies with that definition. They will just claim the definition doesn’t count because “the UN is a Western imperialist facade pushing US propaganda.” The same goes for any source that doesn’t agree with their ideals, for that matter.
You can literally go to xianxang today and talk to Uyghur Muslims. If that’s genocide yall don’t wanna hear about black people in USA… You’re all fuckin insane lol
If I were a zionist, I’d definitely use this sort of argument when talking about Palestinians. Lol you can go to West Bank and talk to them, therefore there’s no genocide.
Get a job
Yeah if you don’t mind getting your head blown off you can.
No, comparing what’s happening in the West Bank to fucking China is laughable and you know it. It’s disingenuous at best and at worst you’re willfully lying by comparing a real genocide to fucking Uyghurs. Try walking into Gaza like that.
“Laughable”, “disingenuous”, “you’re wilfully lying”, wow easy with those arguments there. I made the comparison based on your own logic.
Try walking into an Uyghur reeducation camp, lmao.
Belt and Road Initiative is a debt trap
China is not debt trapping poor African nations. We can see that this isn’t the case when we can observe countries in BRI engaging in rapid development and industrializing, and this is confirmed by China forgiving tons of debt. The goal of China isn’t to make countries reliant on them, or to earn money from debt, it’s because China gains personally through mutual development. Here are some articles debunking the “debt trap” myth:
Five Imperialist Myths About China’s Role in Africa
China debt trap? PH an ‘expert in bad loans,’ Locsin says
Deborah Brautigam Debunks the Chinese Debt Trap Theory in New Research Paper
China’s Debt Relief for Africa: Emerging Deliberations
There are many more examples I can use. China isn’t doing this out of the goodness of their own heart, but because they stand to gain from mutual development. A more developed global south means China is less reliant on the US Empire as a customer, provides new avenues to facilitate trade, and creates more markets for customers. The west harvests the global south for cheap labor and resources, and we can see hard comparisons in data between BRI participants and those imperialized by the west to see fundamentally different results.
This is the funniest imperialism accusation yet.
bait = grabbed lol
Apparently. Summoned a storm of lib bots. Lol
“People don’t agree with me? Must be bots, since I’m obviously never wrong.”
dawg some of these replies straight up don’t make sense
But “yes” does?
Na bro, you just haven’t considered the fact that America bad, everyone knows that
I unironically think that America is bad. I just don’t have better opinions about China.
12 dash line, Belt and road is just neo-colonialism debt traps and soft power grabs, consistent threats to the sovereignty of Bhutan, Taiwan, the Phillipines and more. Financial and material aid to both sides of the conflict in Myanmar, weapon sales to Russia for use in Ukraine, etc.
You’re either incredibly dishonest or incredibly fucking stupid
Anything’s possible when you make shit up kiddo
Oh a tankie! It can write! Now draw shapes tankie. Fuckwad.
Try harder halfwit
What did they make up? You made a claim without backing it up.
Wrong, they’ve made a claim without backing it up. Did you not notice that? Maybe take a second to think about why
You can look up anything in that comment. Very easily. The follow up comment is “you made that all up” which seems would require some level of proof, seeing as the other commenter gave examples which are verifiable.
Myanmar
9 dash line
Crimes against Uyghurs
Belt and road debt trap
So how about you offer something more than “MaDe iT uP” which displays the same debate skills as a 4 year old?
Wow four whole “sources”! Too bad they completely fail to prove any of the inane claims presented here, as usual
First link: “China takes a multipronged approach to secure its investments in Myanmar”, from Janes , “The source for commercially available military intelligence”. Contains exactly zero evidence to support the claim that China is supporting both sides of the conflict in Myanmar, and is published by an MIC data broker owned by a fucking private equity firm.
Second link: “The Nine-Dash Line in the South China Sea: History, Status, and Implications”, full version paywalled, summary is uselessly vague but that’s ok because the original comment we’re discussing didn’t even present any claims, just says “12 dash line” which is also not even the name lol
Third link: “Persecution of Uyghurs in Xinjiang:Torture, Crimes Against Humanity, and Genocide” from the Human Rights Research Center lol. And what are their sources? Oh, just the CIA! Totally credible lol, unlike the unified majority of muslim nations on earth apparently
Fourth link: “‘Tidal wave’: How 75 nations face Chinese debt crisis in 2025”, you clearly didn’t bother reading past the headline or you’d have known that this article directly contradicts the claims you’re defending
From the article: "Rhodium consulting group looked at 38 Chinese debt renegotiations with 24 developing countries in 2019 and concluded that Beijing’s leverage was limited, with many of the renegotiations resolved in favour of the borrower.
According to Rhodium, developing countries had restructured roughly $50bn of Chinese loans in the decade before its 2019 study was published, with loan extensions, cheaper financing and debt forgiveness the most frequent outcomes.
Elsewhere, a 2020 study by the China Africa Research Initiative at Johns Hopkins University found that, between 2000 and 2019, China cancelled $3.4bn of debt in Africa and a further $15bn was refinanced. No assets were seized.
In 2022, the Debt Justice Group estimated that African governments owed three times more to private financial groups than to China, charging double the interest in the process.
“Developing country debt to China is less than what is owed to both private bondholders and multilateral development banks (MDBs),” says Kevin Gallagher, director of the Boston University Global Development Policy Center.
“So, Lowy’s focus on China lacks context. The truth is, even if you remove China from the creditor picture, lots of poor countries would still be in debt distress,” Gallagher told Al Jazeera.
A crucial aspect about Chinese lending,” said Gallagher, “is that it tends to be long-term and growth enhancing. That’s precisely why a lot of it is focused on infrastructure investment. Western lenders tend to get in and out faster and charge higher rates.”
You’re either an incurable moron or a fed, embarassing either way
If selling weapons is bad, I’ve got some news for you about the US you might want to sit down for . . .
It’s like you forgot to read the question they’re answering.
Question: how is China imperialist like USA
Answer: here is how China is imperialist like USA
You: yeah, well USA does it too!
Imperialism is selling weapons? That’s Lenin, right?
Dude calm down
Bro didn’t read the thread, I can tell
Weak, do better
They’re tankies… They’re both.
Belt and Road Initiative
China is not debt trapping poor African nations. We can see that this isn’t the case when we can observe countries in BRI engaging in rapid development and industrializing, and this is confirmed by China forgiving tons of debt. The goal of China isn’t to make countries reliant on them, or to earn money from debt, it’s because China gains personally through mutual development. Here are some articles debunking the “debt trap” myth:
Five Imperialist Myths About China’s Role in Africa
China debt trap? PH an ‘expert in bad loans,’ Locsin says
Deborah Brautigam Debunks the Chinese Debt Trap Theory in New Research Paper
China’s Debt Relief for Africa: Emerging Deliberations
There are many more examples I can use. China isn’t doing this out of the goodness of their own heart, but because they stand to gain from mutual development. A more developed global south means China is less reliant on the US Empire as a customer, provides new avenues to facilitate trade, and creates more markets for customers. The west harvests the global south for cheap labor and resources, and we can see hard comparisons in data between BRI participants and those imperialized by the west to see fundamentally different results.
Have you ever heard of Tibet?
Have you ever asked Tibetan people what they believe? There is literally not any significant Tibet independence movement within China, Tibet is its own autonomous region in China with special rights and higher autonomy than most other provinces, and the culture, religion and language are respected.
Hong Kong? Taiwan?
Taiwan? You mean the city where all the landlords fled from Mao’s revolution and have been propped up by western imperialists powers ever since?
Literal definition of “no true Scotsman”
‘hey maybe an active civil war isn’t an example of imperialism’
“HURR DURR NO TRUE SCOTSMANNN”
“active civil war”
LOL stay on your meds, kids
What… what do you think modern Chinese history is? While it’s widely regarded as over, no peace treaty was ever signed. And while the KMT dictatorship lost power across the Taiwan islands in 1981, the resulting pseudo-government that formed afterwards also failed to introduce any cessation of hostilities. Hell right up until 1973 the KMT still wanted to invade the mainland again.
This war, like the Korean war, never ended. There was no formal end to either war, simply a continued pause in the hostilities. Worse, for your position, there is no active ceasefire agreement between the PRC and the pseudo-government on the island. The sole reason hostilities stopped in 1965 was because the US dedicated a carrier group to the area (and all the CIA-backed KMT soldiers that sheltered in Burma were finally routed and slowed their terror attacks down to focus on running drugs). At this point the PRC has dedicated itself to a peaceful unification, which has been the PRC’s position since 1965 when it was clear the few thousand remaining KMT soldiers could do no harm to mainland Chinese citizens and the need to be ever ready for war was taking far too many resources.
I’m aware.
But practically, that’s a difference without distinction. The majority of the rest of the world considers Taiwan to be a sovereign nation, and Taiwan has been acting as such for a long time. Functionally, that argument is the same as Russia is making with Ukraine, and technicalities over academic language doesn’t change that.
North Korea and South Korea are de facto separate countries, even though their civil war technically didn’t end. If the south invaded the North, that’d be the same.
China has been acting like shit in Hong Kong, but it was originally Chinese territory. So I wouldn’t count that as imperialism.
China’s behavior in the South China Sea is a much better example.
Hong Kong, the place leased to Britain (probably unfairly/forcibly given British history) and subsequently returned to China at the end of the lease?
If you think what China does to Muslims is bad you should see what Taiwan was like before China invaded. Seriously look up how they treated their criminals.
That has no bearing on whether their actions were that of an imperialist.
It’s wild that you think that China committing genocide is somehow a defense to literally anything.
Give me one scholarly source that calls it a genocide
You sound like people claiming the US invaded Afghanistan to save the women
Whataboutism
Yes? Yes?
Yes?
How are y’all still upset that your little slave-owning, theocratic warlord state got liberatated 70 years ago?
The excuse of every imperialist. Even using the word “liberated”. Yellow man’s burden?
Damn, that’s racist. Can’t help yourself but call them yellow, can you?
It’s not imperialist to liberate your own country from serfdom or slavery. Would you look at the northern states in the US liberating the slaves in the south and accuse people who supported that of “White Man’s Burden” shit? What a load of racist bullshit and slavery apologia. The fuck is wrong with you?
Are you seriously trying to pretend to be a leftist while defending serfdom and calling Asians yellow?
Tibet was not China’s “own country”. It was imperialistically annexed.
That’s completely false.
Tibet was part of China since at least the 17th century. After the fall of the Qing, countless little warlord states sprung up all over China, including Tibet. For some reason, some Westerners decided that one of those warlord states was legitimate. Don’t know why you never talk about all the other ones.
I say some Westerners, because the only state that ever actually recognized Tibet as independent was Mongolia. The US fully supported Chinese claims over Tibet before the communists won, and never recognized it as independent even afterwards, nor has any other country. Even Taiwan claims, and has always claimed, Tibet as a part of China.
But you don’t know shit about that. You saw a slogan saying “Free Tibet!” and latched onto it with zero knowledge of the actual history, because it sounded nice and China Bad (those “yellows!”)
I’ll tell you what doesn’t sound so nice: Being forced to work to death and dying at 30. Which is exactly how things were in Tibet before the revolution reached their region. Under Communist leadership, the government poured resources into it and other poor remote regions and doubled the life expectancy. By any objective metric, quality of life greatly improved in Tibet once people were liberated from living in serfdom under, again, a literal theocracy.
By contrast, Texas had only been part of the US for 16 years when they tried to secede to maintain their system of slavery. Not that it really matters, but 16 years is a hell of lot flimsier than 200+ years in terms of sovereignty. What does really matter is the absolutely deplorable, unforgivable conditions that the lamas (like the Confederate slavers) kept the people in, which again, you don’t know shit about, because you didn’t do your goddamn homework.
This is what you’re defending in your ignorance.
Hey it’s OBJECTION being up voted by their own alt accounts again! What a loser lol
Lol, sure buddy.
It helps if you insist the natural state of Chinese territory is a balkinized patchwork of ethnic enclaves fighting border wars “Romance of the Three Kingdoms” style, and the amalgamation of territory over 3000 years of dynastic rule gets dumped on the head of the current government.
Uyghurs are the only Muslim group that the NAFO crowd are allowed to empathize with. And only when they’re local to the Tarim Basin. God help you if you’re a Uyghur living in Europe or Southeast Asia or the United States because they’re not welcome.
Mentioning the name of Adrian Zenz, the history of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation (and where it gets its money), or any choice passages from the book Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation marks you out as a Wumao Far-Left Ultra-Stalinist Botfarm with cooties and a stupid face.
Chickenshit mods
What
I’ll bite too. I live in the Philippines. I’m too stressed to even think about how impossibly cheap Chinese imports have displaced local industries. Walmart style.
We have a long mostly harmless history with local Chinese entrepreneurs, but I’m talking about CCP-sponsored conglomerates and drug, gambling, and troll farms planted just around metros.
It’s mostly soft power and undercover for now, but if the US isn’t looking, we’d be Belarus to Russia.
Sike it’s not all softpower, we have the fucking South China Sea.
US imperialism: we bombed the fuck out of your country and enslaved your people installing a fascist dictatorship and supported it for 30 years
Chinese “imperialism”: oh no, consumer goods are too cheap!
Lol missed the point. If other powers aren’t watching, they’d do the same. For now they “only” do these (on top of my head):
You know, things that won’t catch international attention but slowly but surely are fucking us up
China literally has a well established history of debt forgiving, you’re projecting what the western IMF actually does.
China’s trade balance is net positive towards exports by like $1tn yearly? It’s literally not extracting the resources from anyone else, you’re literally making this up, projection again
More projection. Suharto in your neighbor’s nation was propped up by the US, he was the one mass-murdering communists in Indonesia.
More projection, the US was doing this recently against Venezuelan fishermen, literally fucking bombing people. You’re falling for US propaganda.
Oh no, a sovereign nation doesn’t want its seas to be blockaded by US-aligned forces!
Again projection, the ones with the opium plantations in Afghanistan were the US, there’s no evidence of any such systematic acts by China, drugs are extremely prohibited in China.
Not aware of this, but again, you’re literally spelling out the name of the nation whose imperialism you’re projecting.
You’ve been propagandized against China when it was literally the US maintaining a military dictatorship in your neighboring fucking country killing a million communists!!
With all due fucking respect, this is not coming from US propaganda or making shit up. This is coming from MY daily life experience as a lower class around the metro. Most of this shit are barely documented online so I’m not surprised if anything here is news to you.
Debts forgiven? Not without secret payment of land, water, and letting in CCP-owned companies. Within a decade, I can no longer buy local-grown produce from public markets, and no longer buy local-made clothes in my hometown who historically had the largest textile industry. It’s all Chinese imports and surplus.
And it’ not difficult to understand anti-CCP ≠ pro-US. Literally nothing in my comments are “projecting” or defensive of the US. The US installed the Marcoses, CCP installed the Dutertes. Now that both have seats, they’re fucking us up undercovers, scrambling for who keeps the throne for themselves.
And stating the obvious here, China is not communist. Both have been secretly genociding rural and indegenous minorities in the name of “culling communists.” The general public is even barely aware of this, it just happened under our noses and silenced with little discussion.