One question directly invokes Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s demand that allies stay “strong, clear, and quiet” in alignment with U.S. interests.
The increase in defence spending makes sense since the work is a less safe place since Diaper Donny entered politics. However nothing says you have to or should buy US weapons.
Nothing would sting US arms manufactures more than Trump’s policies pushing all the customers away.
The rest of NATO really needs to form an inner circle that excludes America. We’re a massive liability to the organization.
They could call the select group “NATO Gold”. Being excluded from a select organization that has the word ‘gold’ in its name would really piss Trump off.
You think they don’t already?
The difference is that it doesn’t have a big flashy public name. It will be an informal network of diplomats and knowledgeable command staff.
Yup. The smart move is to do this without Trump knowing you’re doing it. There is still a significant amount of dependence on the US defense industrial complex in a lot of NATO, so it would be a big gap if the rest of NATO was openly telling the US to go fuck itself (as satisfying as that would be). It makes more sense to quietly transition from US dependence over time.
I don’t think they see much strategic purpose in pissing Trump off :p
Yeah but then he’ll want back in and the cycle starts again :-(
NATO gold is reserved for the united states only, with trump as chief senior executive top general. No one else can attend those meetings
Everyone else gets put in NATO brass, and they need to meet regularly to show that they are on board with this new system.
Didn’t we already do that, I remember there being a secret meeting of the leaders of most European countries that the US wasn’t invited to, where they supposedly discussed future defense as the US grows unreliable
Not only outside of NATO, but also inside the other countries are starting to fill the vacuum left by the US. The importance of the US to NATO has severely diminished in the past 2 years and this process is accelerating. I have even heard rumblings of the US getting kicked out (eventually) of NATO if they continue being unreliable. At a minimum there is a serious realignment ongoing.
But yes, post-NATO security frameworks are being openly and secretly discussed in Europe and with its democratic non-US allies.
It’s on purpose at this point. I’m fairly certain one of the aims of the heritage foundation is to turn the U.S. into a technofeudal state with billionaires running everything. And if the U.S. breaks up Balkan style, even better.
Yeah, but they keep it quiet. The fastest Trump retreats the harder it is to switch so they’ll send in Rutte for some serious brown-nosing while buying, producing and setting up their own non US weapons and systems. Besides, everybody could see very well how much USA’s protection is worth in the Straight of Hormuz. Meanwhile Trump starts to notice how much he gets done without allies.
pathetic…
He wants you to break up with him.
USA needs to be thrown out of NATO.
But that’s probably what Putin wants, and he has ordered Trump to be impossible in NATO to create a breakup.
Unfortunately the Americans are doing effectively nothing to stop him, so we can’t trust USA anymore.😂 on any other president I wouldn’t have bothered clicking on this, because it would 100% be false… but with Donald it is most likely true
Fuck off and die you fat megalomniac pedophile rapist cunt. The united snakes can suck cock in Hell.
As an American….that’s fair.
Please await our return to normalcy, which I dearly hope is soon.
This is normal for you. You elected him twice. You elected bush twice. This is American trajectory.
So what are you doing about it; nothing just like the rest of you americans.
At this point in any other country there would be 100k people in front of the White House every day until the government collapses but in the US people are just living their normal lives in an abnormal time taking it like lemmings and whinning like children.
You are responsible for the world econmomy collapsing when it does, just remember that; the world won’t forget.
A country which is prone to start backstabbing, blackmailing and threatening their allies every 4 years isn’t normal per se. The USA will never regain my trust (and i believe i am in the majority of europeans here) until they fix their shit for good, which i will probably not live to see; half of US-americans active voters chose this shitshow for a second time, which means they love the taste of leather combat boots (Nazi style).
1 in 3 still love in now with citizens shot in the street and concentration camps being built. They are nazis.
I don’t think you’ll ever regain the trust guys gave up so willingly when you elected the worst human ever. Fucking twice even. The trust is gone and your former allies just want you guys to shut up and go away.
normalcy You mean like manufacturing fake evidence for WMD so we can go to war with Iraq. A war in which only only did we lose thousands of Americans we also killed around 500,000 Iraqs. We could pack a stadium with the dead children we killed alone.
We have always been the bad guys.
You should know that USA wasn’t even near normal under Obama. Spying on allies, and thousands killed in illegal drone attacks is not normal.
I don’t trust USA to return to normal anytime soon. American exceptionalism isn’t an exclusive Republican thing.
But closer to normal would still be preferable.Spying on allies
Anyone who knows anything about history and politics should understand that everybody spies on everybody and that’s fine because knowing what other countries are up to is how you avoid war. Countries trust their allies because their spies help them KNOW that they can trust them. As soon as spies are taken out of the equation, everybody starts getting WAY more paranoid about what other countries are up to, and that’s how you get pointless wars. Sometimes, foreign spies even HELP a country, because they can sometimes catch things that domestic intelligence misses, like “hey, such-and-such foreign nation has infiltrated your such-and-such government agency; you might wanna do something about that. How did we get this info? Trade secret. But you’re welcome”.
Spying ON ITS OWN is almost utterly benign. It’s certainly better than the alternative. Expecting humans to not be nosy about what their neighbors are up to is just asking for disappointment. Nosiness is an inevitable fact of life. Sure, if you CATCH a spy, you eject them. But it’s naive to be offended by the attempt.
Wrong, spying used to be a wartime thing you did against enemies.
USA changed that after WW2, and most countries followed. Because now apparently everyone is an enemy, and no one can be trusted.Spying ON ITS OWN is almost utterly benign
That’s completely bullshit, it is absolutely not benign that USA is spying on allies, they are truing to use it to undermine their political views.
Wrong, spying used to be a wartime thing you did against enemies.
Do you really believe that?
Also:
they are truing to use it to undermine their political views.
That’s not “spying on its own” anymore, though, is it?
It’s a fact, look it up.
I looked it up. I didn’t put a ton of effort into it, but I found some things.
First link I found was this one, https://www.mi5.gov.uk/history/between-the-wars/the-inter-war-years, talking about spying going on between WW1 and WW2.
British intelligence service was started in 1909. They weren’t at war, but they were concerned about spying, German spies in particular:
Wow were you born yesterday? You think espionage is a thing the US invented after WW2? Lmao.
Your reading comprehension is very low.
Oh my reading comprehension is perfectly fine. Your statement is just extraordinarily untrue and ridiculous.
Please await our return to normalcy, which I dearly hope is soon.
americans are something else… Do you honestly believe things will just go back to normal, no harm done, as soon as your twice elected monster kicks the bucket? Really??
No, no! You don’t get it!
So many people didn’t vote! This isn’t who we are! Rabble rabble rabble!
In all seriousness though… Americans are right now like a patient bleeding out where the shock has set in and they are no longer capable of realizing the wound is fatal. I got out, so I can afford to look at it objectively, but millions of people are either trapped or hoped things wouldn’t get so bad that they’d have to inconvenience their personal lives, and both of those groups psychologically maintain the illusion that things can go back because the alternative is being completely overwhelmed and breaking down, so I DO understand where the denial is coming from. It’s not legitimate hope for restoration - it’s psychological delusion as existential defense.
I’m still stuck inside and the amount of people doing the ostrich head in the sand thing is un-fucking-real, got told by a former friend just this last week that they were just trying to “live their life” and couldn’t handle all the negativity.
I don’t even know what to say to that
We haven’t been normal since at least the 90s.
When Reagan’s policies sunk in.
for what? 4? maybe 8 years? and then you’re all right back on the right wing agenda? Reagan, Bush, Bush Jr, Trump, whose next?
for years, decades even the rest of us have simply tolerated you. never really trusted you, mocked you behind your backs, but we generally kept quiet about it. now? now we’re no longer hiding our opinions of you. and those opinions have always been there so things aren’t going to change for you on the world stage, ever.
How can we trust you? you elected this clown twice. you elected Bush Jr twice. “Please wait our return to normalcy”? how can we await your return for something you never had.
American Exceptionalism == Main Character Syndrome
Ain’t nobody waiting for nothing.
Narrator: It wasn’t
Holy shit you guys are pussies. Home of the brave indeed!
The military does nothing.
The media does nothing.
Congress does nothing.
The DOJ is complicit.
Law enforcement is largely enabling.
While I absolutely understand the disgust and disdain I’d ask what you think would happen in your world if the institutions and structure you knew failed so completely to react to this lunacy.
I never expected the first term and after that chaos and incompetence was quite happy to see it end AND a return to normalcy. Then the idiot segment of voters chose this moron again and it’s inexplicably worse than the first go around.
A civil war would be … horrific. I have kids that would be pulled into such a conflict.
I support better candidates, am engaged and volunteer to help in some tiny way to get them in office but I’m just some guy that is not going deliver much of an obstacle to an army or police. Protesting is what we have at hand and yeah it is not enough - but the media is not working to engage and educate the masses to unite more and so we’re just stuck.
We have long been isolated from the horrors of war we have blithely visited on others and I’m not going to pretend I’d ever want to know how nightmarish it is.
When the trucker convoy bullshit was happening I was involved with a counter protest that jammed their communication networks. What have you done? How often do you write your representatives encouraging them to do something while you still have a fascimile of a democracy going on?
Why are you being sp presumptuous?
I’ve donated, protested, phone banked, letter campaigned and left who knows how many voicemails and emails to Congress…farting into the wind perhaps but I’m doing what I can.
It has to engage masses which is precisely why the media is so goddamn compromised. Its intentional.
And I am being presumptuous because of how your countrymen are acting, generally. No offense.
This reads like poetry The kind of visceral anger that I wish the American people would unify and express against their own leadership
Their press meetings should be so constantly full of this kinda speech they can’t even manage to get through a simple briefing.
“Okay, Q&A…”
“Thank you. Mr. President are you even sorry for all the innocent people you’ve personally or impersonally murdered?”
“ARREST THEM. NEXT? YOU IN THE BACK!”
“Yes, thank you. Associated Press. Anyway, you gonna kill yourself in a bunker anytime soon you rapist piece of shit?”
“GUARDS! we have time for ONE MORE…about the excellent new ballroom or something…”
“Hello, yes… where’d your mother go wrong and would you consider yourself your joke of a family’s biglyest mistake?”
Authoritarianism is an admission of abject weakness.
White supremacists are the weakest and most brittle snowflakes.
You mean the country that has pissed away all of its weaponry and is currently losing a war of choice against an enemy that is, generously speaking, a 10th of its strength?
Yeah, NATO’s gonna be sad to lose it.
Where is the line? When do we stop this nonsense?
Ummmm, like way back there. This is now ride or die levels of stupid and terrible.
Idk, man. What did you plan to do about it?
I don’t have money or resources to single handedly Rambo the situation away, but if a politician were within arms reach of me I’d go for the neck and eyes, consequences be damned. That’s all one person could realistically achieve.
There is a reason I said “we,” jackass. This isn’t a one person job.
Trump loves to bully America’s allies.
NATO is weaker with America in it. It is best if they kick out America and continue on, sooner than later. America is just gonna backstab NATO before Trump’s term runs dry, assuming he doesn’t kick off an 2nd American War.
In the case of a civil war, NATO would probably support the ReUnion against the Neo Confederates. Because, bluntly, an Dogey America is simply evil and cannot be ever be a good partner for any decent nation. Putting down a rabid dog would be prudent, rather than letting it wander free to bite nations at random.
Once the US loses access to NATO bases and ports of call, their ability to project military power will be VASTLY reduced. Just losing Turkey, the UK and Germany will be catastrophic. America will pivot to African enclaves and barely survive there. The future of American military might includes a whole lot of malaria. Putin will be thrilled.
In the case of a US civil war, we aren’t giving support to either side. Americans are just violent people and y’all have been wanting to kill each other for a while now. Why would any country put any of their soldiers’ lives at risk to getting involved with American bullshit?
Ask yourself, how would have Europe turned out if America didn’t get involved in WW2? If you keep your hands off the wheel, don’t be surprised if the worst happens.
We fought against fascism in WWII. The US is the fascist country now.
Whatever the US was in WWII is dead now.
If you keep your hands off the wheel, don’t be surprised if the worst happens.
Americans have kept their hands off the wheel. You could just vote for the Democrats and end fascism in your country. But you make excuses not to, because y’all really just want to kill your neighbours and don’t want to do anything to avoid that.
Why should anyone else want to be involved in that shitshow?
You missed the point. If Dogey America is allowed to survive, it may come under the control of a competent fascist leadership - which could pose a threat to everybody. Killing Dogey America and supporting something that doesn’t suck, is the best way for Europe to protect itself.
Also, remember Lend-Lease and the Marshall Programs. These reinforced Europe and allowed it to recover, while tremendously benefiting America. Turnabout is fair play, and may allow Europe to become a superpower to contest China.
Ah yes, the hallmark of sophisticated management: everyone has to express an appropriate level of support for all decisions, especially bad ones.
This is a perfect example of conservative MAGA values. They want a heirarchy system where the chosen people at the top are given special privileges and are effectively above the law. This is what .makes MAGA so foreign and hard to understand for so many people.
Know your enemy.
My lord Trump, you wear the biggest of diapers and your shits are the smelliest in the whole entire world!
