Even if the progressive wing somehow replaces the rightist corpo Dems, the ruling class would never allow us to democratically make the changes we all want to see without a fight. They will respond with fascism, so our communities must be organized enough to pose a bigger threat than what they can buy/foment.
The olde bait and switch
Jeffries already been bought off after his private meeting with Kushner the other day.
He was bought off long before that. He was just meeting with his boss to get his marching orders.
Did this person miss the Obamacare fight?
You mean the one where a Democrat argued for a republican created policy to perpetuate our healthcare misery for another few decades?
I liked the part where the democrats slow rolled every part of it, coming to the negotiating table over and over with concessions to get the republicans to support it, all for nothing.
For real, I don’t get why more people don’t talk about this. They literally dismantled their own plan to appease Republicans, the Republicand never supported it, and they pushed forward their gutted plan.
Like, if you are going to say fuck it and push the plan with Democrats alone at least use the original plan that wasn’t gutted. That shit was purposeful.
lib answer: let’s laughably try and fix this party
I don’t know what is considered a lib anymore but my answer is let’s have more than 2 parties. Reform electoral law, get rid of first past the post. Raked choice voting.
Ok, now how do you get that enacted within our current framework?
Some non-banana republics have tried this wacky idea of starting a different party, completely independent of any other party.
Which is a really good idea if you’re not satisfied with the 2 you stubbornly keep voting for and who have invariably done the same shitty things since the beginning. Some of us wild countries even have more than 3 parties!The US also has more than 3 parties, but the current system guarantees that only two can get enough votes. The entire electoral system is built to perpetuate this, including the media ecosystem. So sadly, it’s not as simple as just “have a third party.”
Personally, I think socialist revolution is the only thing that can bring positive change in this country, largely because it doesn’t try to change things within the system, it seeks to dismantle the system entirely.
The US also has more than 3 parties, but the current system guarantees that only two can get enough votes.
‘strongly favors’ yes, but not ‘guaranteed’.
It all comes down to the voters and the self fulfilling prophecy of not voting 3rd party because nobody does.And yes, socialist revolution is the far better option but then we’re back to my first comments.
You certainly can’t expect that from people who can’t even manage the voting 3rd party part.
They have zero class consciousness and perpetually voting against their own interests.
It’s almost like the system is designed to prevent the working class from gaining any headway while consistently capitulating to the whims of capital.
The intrinsic failure of arbitrarily hierarchical systems. When the working class demands change, it can’t happen because [arbitrary barriers we blindly obey] while anytime the owning-class demands it, suddenly we must make compromises for the benefit of the “county’s economy”
Never forget the state and the economy are intrinsically linked. The state is a tool of the ruling class to oppress the working class. It is fundamental to the system itself.
if we were smart, we’d prosecute the centrists as accomplices. because they are.
Id prosecute the people who stood by and did nothing when the fascists raved about what they were going to do.
That includes non-voters.
“I’d prosecute anyone who wouldn’t vote for my genocidal fascist of choice”
Does that include ShitLibs who split the anti-Trump vote by voting for Kamala Harris, even though it was obvious she couldn’t win and Gloria La Riva was right there?
the ones that keep siding with israel, or taking thier money and the ones getting money from people like koch, thiel and others.
that’s a constant in both sides of your uniparty.
americans are dumb AF
If you think any of those explanations aren’t valid excuses, then you don’t actually know how the government functions. Sure everything is easier when a dictator like Trump does it because he doesn’t follow the law.
Oh, you think carrying out the will of your voters is good? Well have you considered that goes against the design of a system made by slave-owning rapists to maintain their class’s power?
-ChonkyOwlBear, probably.
It’s more complicated than you are presenting it. There are hundreds of representatives each with their own motivation on every different vote.
Yeah, sometimes they vote against the will of the voters (Israel). Other times, they can’t do the will of the voters because of the rules. For example budget reconciliation can be used to pass financial-only laws with a simple majority that would otherwise need a higher vote threshold to pass. The parliamentarian will say no if they try and squeeze something non-financial through that way.
Even Trump hasn’t been willing to fire the parliamentarian and blow up that system. It has a purpose.
You want to throw out the whole Constitution and start over? Fine. How many dead are worth it to you? There Conservatives are sure as hell not going to give up power without a fight and they are willing to kill to keep it.
There are hundreds of representatives each with their own motivation on every different vote.
And there’s a party whip and the power to take representatives off committees or remove their access to party infrastructure. The whole point of a party is that it can force its members to work together, without that ability you don’t have a party.
Even Trump hasn’t been willing to fire the parliamentarian and blow up that system. It has a purpose.
It hasn’t been useful for him because he appointed a parliamentarian who does what he wants. When Bush’s parliamentarian wouldn’t, he fired him and replaced him with one who would.
You want to throw out the whole Constitution and start over? Fine. How many dead are worth it to you? There Conservatives are sure as hell not going to give up power without a fight and they are willing to kill to keep it.
The literal only use any government institution is to enact the will of the entity that controls it. The conservatives understand this, the left understand this, only the liberals who don’t understand why they keep losing at calvinball have yet to figure it out.
And there’s a party whip and the power to take representatives off committees or remove their access to party infrastructure.
The whip can not take tepreststives off committees. The decision must go through the party’s internal Steering Committee or be voted on and approved by a resolution of the full House chamber.
The Speaker of the House has the authority to appoint and remove members from temporary select or conference committees at any time.
The whip can only make threats and offer new committee positions.
It hasn’t been useful for him because he appointed a parliamentarian who does what he wants.
Elizabeth McDonough has been parliamentarian since 2012
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_MacDonough
The literal only use any government institution is to enact the will of the entity that controls it.
Unless that will breaks already established laws. If the majority wants to reinstate slavery, they shouldn’t be able to just ignore the 13th amendment and the essential civil rights of millions of people.
Your proving op’s point
No, not really.
Anyone who disagrees with your unthinking support for genocide and no other policy ever doesn’t know how anything works.
I don’t support genocide. I recognize the unfortunate reality that either Democrats or Republicans are going to be running the country right now. Maybe one day we can get better options, it is not an option here and now.
The way I see it, Democrats are convincible, Republicans aren’t. Republicans hate nonwhites and Muslims, Democrats don’t. That makes Democrats the better option.
The way I see it, Democrats are convincible, Republicans aren’t.
Democrats can only be convinced to move to the right. I think you know this.
No. All the protest against Israel is working. More Dems are pulling back on their support.
More dems are being supplanted by better dems.
Last time I looked AIPAC owned the Democrats as well. We can’t start putting things back together until American sovereignty is restored.
I’m not convinced they’ll regain power. The fucking president just promised to pay $5,000 per vote. He is trying to gain power over mail-in votes. He prevents interviews with democrats from airing on TV. He has friends that admit to messing with voting machines.
THIS IS NOT DEMOCRACY.
These are all basically the same thing and, yes, you can’t pass a bill in the Senate if you can’t get 60 votes
And you never need the senate to sell weapons for genocide.
Yes that’s correct, you don’t need the Senate’s permission to sell things
In this case, selling “things”, specifically weapons that were actively being used for genocide, is against the Leahy law.
Funny how any excuse will stop centrist democrats from helping workers, but actual law won’t stop them from their only goal in life.
Good thing that it’s not a genocide, according to the UN definition and the ICJ, or some people might really be in trouble
The democrats don’t have the balls to do anything even if they had all of congress and the presidency. The democrats have been shown what is permissible, and they don’t have the spine to do what is necessary.
former dem presidents haven’t broken the norms because they were afraid of setting a precedent.
I think that’s all gone now, or at least better be, because the obstruction future admins face even if they get voted for is going to be enormous.
The precedent has now been set that you can torture the other side and target their states and communities with money withholding, police/military, and imprison subgroups, label them terrorists, and incite in-groups, and capture judges and literally ignore laws…They don’t have what it takes, and the American public won’t hold anyone accountable for any amount of time. Cooked.
They don’t have what it takes, and the American public won’t hold anyone accountable for any amount of time. Cooked.
you’re a real beacon of fuckin hope
also, do you really clamor for someone who’s vengefully coiled waiting to break the system entirely to visit misery on some rural voter schmuck or should they focus on restoring the national character (chisel all that shit off the walls and strip the gold spray paint off too), rebuild alliances, constitutionally establish trans rights as human rights, restore the economy, etc.,? bring back the deported, prosecute ICE architects and the fascist footsoldiers… roll back all of trump’s signatory bullshit, put maxwell into the wost fuckin hole they can find, release the epstein files etc.,
and even then, it still wouldn’t be enough - they deserve worse. but. priorities.
this is a real problem, they’ve fucked up more stuff than can conceivably be fixed in a single admin.
I have more thoughts on this but the dog must be walked NOW
I agree there is more to be done than can be done in 1 admin already, but I’m not convinced what they should do as step 1 will be done at all.
I have a family, so… hope springs eternal.
two things really standing out: diesel is surpassing $6 a gallon. everything we buy and eat are moved by trucks eating diesel.
russia has seen enormous segments of it’s industrial sector and especially it’s resource extraction hammered.
hope it’s not a cold winter, because ooof… might just lead to an overthrow of putin.
they know if they set a precendents, they would actually have to do something for once, like actually act on thier “promises”, most of them tend to be Dinos though.
I wonder if even after Trump they will run with the “Change takes time you have to be patient” bullshit again. That is if they ever get relected.
They’ll do the “We look forward, we don’t look back” bullshit that Obama pulled post Bush.
Nobody important in the Trump administration will be prosecuted or punished in any meaningful way. Just you watch, we’ve been here before.
Reminder that it makes a whole hell of a lot more sense to reform the Democrat party than to shit on your vote and throw it away with a non-viable 3rd party that isn’t even trying to be viable.
If you vote 3rd party you will watch your country burn while you cross your fingers and hope for a miracle.
It would make sense if it were possible. It isn’t. The entire structure of the party as an organization is designed to ensure that no grassroots movement can ever wrest power away from the powerful.
But I encourage you to try your best. 10 years of busting my ass and becoming a paid campaign staffer was what finally made me see the light. The Third Way Foundation controls access to every single meaningful lever of power. Elected Dems like AOC and Bernie are tolerated because they help keep leftists hopeful, which keeps them voting Blue, which keeps them from ever genuinely organizing to become a threat to the Neoliberal agenda the Dems exist to defend. Their policy proposals are punchlines to the people who actually control the legislative agenda. They will only ever be brought up for an vote occasionally when the deck is stacked solidly against them to “prove” how they’re guaranteed losing moves, despite the fact that Medicare for All polls much better than any politician that opposed it.
It’s possible at a state level. Jessie Ventura is the only example I can think of though.
I agree. It’s also important to remember that that is not the destination, but the first milepost on the way to course correcting the entire system, even when following the incrementalist way to change one piece at a time.
Well said, Hakeem.
Let’s get to that point and at the same time run candidates to prevent it happening again.
“Oh my God he’s bleeding out! We have to stop the bleeding”
“Yeah I’ve seen this before, he’s just going to start bleeding again. Do you want Arby’s?”
Let’s fix problems, take incremental wins where available, and not be morons about it.
It’s like people think democrats become kings when they get into office. Literally half the country is sub 100 iq, is moderately/extremely racist, and keeps voting in room temperature iq Republicans into the senate. About 1/3rd of the country voted for Trump AFTER we knew he was a felon and tried to steal the election.
It’s like people think democrats become kings when they get into office.
This excuse stops working now that the republicans have made it clear that the party in order absolutely has the ability to make sweeping changes if they choose to.
Weird how the republicans never seem to let the parliamentarian or 1 vote or the SCOTUS or whatever stop them.
They have the majority in literally everything and they still have failed to pass so many bills because they are that incompetent.
The Republicans are doing the equivalent of giving themselves money in a monopoly game and saying “hey there’s no rule that says I CAN’T do that, is there?” Like when they sat on their hands rather than voting on Obama’s scotus pick for months. I don’t know what you do about that other than matching the egregious actions, and it seems dems are still trying to play inside the rules which I agree is a losing strategy.
That’s one thing I’m really aligned with the DSA on, democrats need to break the rules too or have extremely harsh punishments for it once they’re in power, so Republicans know to cut it out or they’re either out of office or in jail.
