I am responding to brynden here, but this is for anyone, especially those who believe the most moral choice in Nov 2024 was to vote third party or not at all…
Do you pay taxes to the US government? If you do, could you explain to me how not voting for Harris absolves you of moral culpability for genocide, but giving thousands of dollars every year to the Feds (who have always been controlled by a major party), who will use that money to directly fund genocide, doesn’t make you even more culpable than that single vote for Harris?
Voting for someone who says “I will arm a genocide” means you’ve voluntarily helped that person to do that.
I don’t think paying taxes under duress to a government that arms a genocide is comparable.
Do I understand you as saying “you could go to jail rather than pay taxes, therefore you’re a hypocrite for not voting for someone who says ‘I will arm a genocide’?”
I mean…i’m sure you agree with this: if the democrats want to win, they should not be making choices that cost them votes. Their post-mortem on 2024 tells them that continuing their pro-genocide position cost them votes (according to axios anyway, who I guess got a peek at it somehow. the democrats have decided they are not going to publish it.).
That’s real pressure for them to change. Not voting for the democrats created that pressure. They now know that abandoning israel will lead to a net-increase in their votes.
And yeah, I would hope that when looking down the barrel of more domestic fascism, knowing that it will matter from a purely Machiavellian perspective, the democrats will stop arming a genocide.
Like…I get how scared everyone is. I have family members who are undocumented immigrants in the US. It is terrifying. My neice might get shipped off to some el-salvadorian torture prison. Life would have been better for them if Harris had won. But I don’t regret refusing to vote for Harris because (a) I reject the claim that I have some ethical culpability for what the the fascists do (that’s just some ontological fuckery that I can’t straighten out in my mind, even with the benefit of a philosophy undergrad and years more of school and work figuring out all kinds of tax-law fuckery), and (b) people taking this position has created measurable pressure on the democrats to change. I guess there’s also the sneaky (c) my vote would not have counted anyway because I’m not from a swing state.
You have done a lot of work to justify your voting to continue arming the genocide of Palestinians. And hey, if you find that convincing, have at it.
And you’re jumping through some real conceptual hoops to blame me for what Donald trump does lol I didn’t vote for him. You did vote for Harris.
Like I said, I’m a lawyer. I’m used to weird mental gymnastics. I only mention my bachelors in case your mental gymnastics require a doctorate in philosophy to understand or what? Like…walk me through how you get to my moral culpability for the actions of Donald trump, as someone who didn’t vote for him. Explain that to an idiot like me.
It’s horrifying. I didn’t support it, and our lack of support is making one party rethink their support for it. Your acquiescence to it did fuck all for Palestinians.
There wasn’t one, and ain’t that a bitch? Isn’t that suspicious? Isn’t that a problem?
The answer is that (I know this might seem totally insane to you) the people with power are not the voters. The people with power decide if we get fascism at home or genocide abroad. And they’re the ones to blame when we do. They have agency and culpability.
I’m sick of this ridiculous ethical Rube Goldberg machine, which none of you can explain, that blames me for that.
I don’t blame you for picking the lesser of two evils…what do I care? Just shut the hell up and stop punching left.
And all the democrats had to do to avoid it was not arm a genocide? Which they shouldn’t have done anyway? Failing to see how this is my fault.
Sorry if we got in the way of your plan to throw palestinians in the woodchipper and go back to brunch. Congrats on your moral inferiority?
Yeah the better version of this meme has the text, “Well at least she didn’t say anything antisemitic.”
There’s that brunch thing again. I guess eating at 11am is horrifyingly bourgeoise, but that seems kind of dumb.
Brunch is lovely.
But I’m using brunch as a metaphor for “living a comfortable life and not worrying about the suffering inflicted with your tax dollars.”
I am responding to brynden here, but this is for anyone, especially those who believe the most moral choice in Nov 2024 was to vote third party or not at all…
Do you pay taxes to the US government? If you do, could you explain to me how not voting for Harris absolves you of moral culpability for genocide, but giving thousands of dollars every year to the Feds (who have always been controlled by a major party), who will use that money to directly fund genocide, doesn’t make you even more culpable than that single vote for Harris?
Do you all live off the grid on a barter system?
Because you don’t pay taxes voluntarily? You pay taxes under duress. If you don’t they put you in prison.
So, your ethical/moral framework is optional. Only comes into play if there are no consequences or fallout from you doing the right thing. Got it.
Voting for someone who says “I will arm a genocide” means you’ve voluntarily helped that person to do that.
I don’t think paying taxes under duress to a government that arms a genocide is comparable.
Do I understand you as saying “you could go to jail rather than pay taxes, therefore you’re a hypocrite for not voting for someone who says ‘I will arm a genocide’?”
Wow you really showed them.
I mean…actually though; their postmortem says they lost net votes due to arming the genocide.
But I’ve been told that it wasn’t enough to change the outcome? Which is it?
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I mean…i’m sure you agree with this: if the democrats want to win, they should not be making choices that cost them votes. Their post-mortem on 2024 tells them that continuing their pro-genocide position cost them votes (according to axios anyway, who I guess got a peek at it somehow. the democrats have decided they are not going to publish it.).
That’s real pressure for them to change. Not voting for the democrats created that pressure. They now know that abandoning israel will lead to a net-increase in their votes.
And yeah, I would hope that when looking down the barrel of more domestic fascism, knowing that it will matter from a purely Machiavellian perspective, the democrats will stop arming a genocide.
Like…I get how scared everyone is. I have family members who are undocumented immigrants in the US. It is terrifying. My neice might get shipped off to some el-salvadorian torture prison. Life would have been better for them if Harris had won. But I don’t regret refusing to vote for Harris because (a) I reject the claim that I have some ethical culpability for what the the fascists do (that’s just some ontological fuckery that I can’t straighten out in my mind, even with the benefit of a philosophy undergrad and years more of school and work figuring out all kinds of tax-law fuckery), and (b) people taking this position has created measurable pressure on the democrats to change. I guess there’s also the sneaky (c) my vote would not have counted anyway because I’m not from a swing state.
deleted by creator
You have done a lot of work to justify your voting to continue arming the genocide of Palestinians. And hey, if you find that convincing, have at it.
And you’re jumping through some real conceptual hoops to blame me for what Donald trump does lol I didn’t vote for him. You did vote for Harris.
Like I said, I’m a lawyer. I’m used to weird mental gymnastics. I only mention my bachelors in case your mental gymnastics require a doctorate in philosophy to understand or what? Like…walk me through how you get to my moral culpability for the actions of Donald trump, as someone who didn’t vote for him. Explain that to an idiot like me.
deleted by creator
It’s horrifying. I didn’t support it, and our lack of support is making one party rethink their support for it. Your acquiescence to it did fuck all for Palestinians.
deleted by creator
There wasn’t one, and ain’t that a bitch? Isn’t that suspicious? Isn’t that a problem?
The answer is that (I know this might seem totally insane to you) the people with power are not the voters. The people with power decide if we get fascism at home or genocide abroad. And they’re the ones to blame when we do. They have agency and culpability.
I’m sick of this ridiculous ethical Rube Goldberg machine, which none of you can explain, that blames me for that.
I don’t blame you for picking the lesser of two evils…what do I care? Just shut the hell up and stop punching left.