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One thing where Windows has an advantage over KDE for non IT people, is applications can directly access network shares. Most KDE applications don’t even show the network in the file browse selector. So for sync or backup apps it only works with mounted shares. Which isn’t necessary in Windows. To mount a share in KDE it’s convoluted and a hack that is no good non IT users. If they expect good usability.
How often do non-IT users have a network share? And if they do, how often do they manage it themselves?
Maybe don’t start with the diy distro then?
Wait, windows ships with Dolphin these days?
🤷♂️ OP’s bait isn’t perfect. But apparently you can download Dolphin for Windows
Amazing!
Well, I learned something new today :)
and it is a slog to start up. op ain’t lying there. but if its files remain in windows’ cache after that, it’s fast.
Back in the KDE 4 days, you used to be able to run the whole DE on Windows.
Haven’t used Windows in a hot minute, do you actually have to install WLAN drivers manually there?
No, the windows updater usually grabs them just fine.
But if you do a clean install using the image from microsoft, then it’s very likely it won’t have a working wifi driver until you run updates. Which you know… it needs the internet to do.
That pissed me so off, when i had to reinstall a bunch of notebooks at work… they didn’t even have an ethernet port, so i had to dig out some docking station from the trash pile in the server room.
most network and wifi chips made before the spin of windows are supported by built-in drivers.
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not the case for most new hardware, especially laptops. Sure you get a cheap laptop and its probably gonna be fine but an enterprise laptop with the latest and greatest… totally a coin flip
I have had to deal with it on so many models in recent years its not even funny. (IT system admin who never uses the default install of Windows)
Isn’t this more of a “to cheap to make the device fall back to a low performance emulating-generic” type of issue?
When I tried to install Windows 10 2 years ago on my mini PC it tried to install wifi drivers but failed. Wifi only worked after manually downloading and installing the driver. Various Linux distros were plug and play and wifi worked out of the box.
‘works on my machine’ -one of the most ignorant arguments.
The same model Motherboards can have different sound, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth chips.
You’re trusting unsigned, reverse engineered, and amateur developed drivers in ring 0 which can possibly damage your hardware and firmware.
It’s not something to casually recommend people do.
You’re trusting unsigned, reverse engineered, and amateur developed drivers in ring 0
Up until 2025 most of the software for controlling your periphery like mice and RGB controllers used a driver called WInRIng0 which had been discontinued for years. Its author even actively discouraged people from using it, but due to convenience and cost cutting it was bundled with software left and right.
I rather trust a Linux kernel developer developing a WiFi driver than some shady manufacturer selling cheap mice and bundling it with closed-source software that never gets an update.
Had the issue, so yes.
The easiest way to solve it was to not dual-boot. :-)
When I tried to migrate to W11 a number of years ago, the wireless drivers weren’t installed automatically (plus major issues with my GPU and lots of other quirks). They’ve probably gotten better since then, but I wouldn’t know (after about three hours of trying to get basic things working, I tried loading Mint on a thumbdrive and everything worked out of the box, including things like function keys and adjustable keyboard backlighting–I never went back).
Not in 11 that i’ve seen but drivers used to be ridiculous on windows. The funny thing is it was even worse on linux for a hot minute. I remember borking my nic multiple times on slackware 3 and having to hoof it to my friend’s house to download a driver way back in olden times. I learned a fuckload about linux and networking during those years breaking things.
I definitely remember the times when wlan was a PITA on Linux : )
Oh, what was that thing called, ndiswrapper or similar, where you downloaded the windows versions of the drivers and then wrapped them up and hoped they worked, and good luck with power saving or resume from sleep.
Don’t get me wrong; amazing that it worked even as well as it did, but glad we’ve got native drivers now. A small step forward every day and soon you’ll have gone a long way.
It gets worse. For some reason InTune managed machines I deploy at work don’t even work HARDWIRED. It only works if you use a USB C to Ethernet adapter. No, it is not missing an Ethernet port. It just doesn’t work for absolutely no reason. I just did a remote InTune training, and had to download drivers from Dell’s website, extract the exe (lol), put it on a flash drive, and install it manually before I could even log into Windows.
If you don’t have an Ethernet connection, fairly regularly
It’s at least better than the Vista days where it didn’t even have an Ethernet driver consistently, and you had to download your Ethernet driver from another computer 🤷♂️
There are some cheap wifi cards that have sketchy drivers that aren’t automatically installed, and my gigabyte motherboard only came with drivers for Windows 11 for its on-board WiFi, so while windows usually gets the drivers fine there are not-even-that-obscure situations where it just absolutely does not.
Nice troll XD
I feel like he’s gonna get banned for posting this on that subreddit lmao
He 100% going to be banned, I was banned with doing nothing wrong there. The mods there are bit crazy
There is exactly one(1) guy posting on that sub, and he’s here on .world too.
Also, don’t miss out on his hits such as “Linux empowers criminals”(especially the part where he captions a Stallman photo with “Oy vey!”) and “Kernel Anti-Cheats are a necessary evil”. Dude’s either a fed or a chud.
EDIT: By his own admission:
Critical of the Abrahamic dick skinning death cult, posting memes regarding that on Gab
Oh, I didn’t saw it was Linuxsucks on Lemmy, I thought it was on Reddit
it’s on both
Wait, the owner of that subreddit is the same guy here on Lemmy? You’re kidding me.
I’m glad I got banned from r/linuxsucks101 before I got perma-banned from reddit
i remember windows not having drivers for wireless and wired networking and requiring an internet connection to install.
had to find a usb ethernet adapter to install. absolute insanity…
it’s all systemD fault!
The second issue was too blatant, I knew I was getting the old 4chan bait and switch
The most obvious bait to be was 1 hour install time. Windows 11 took 2 hours to install, CachyOS took like 5 minutes. I imagine Arch is similar, there is simply no way. Lol
Arch install time is mostly user dependent Id say
Lots of options and you’ll need to spend some time RTFM. But if you already know how you want to partition your disks, then the basic installation (with a network controller!) takes about two minutes.
Then you can restart into the cli, and the real questions - what else am I going to install? - can begin.
That was exactly where I was like, “huh”? Cause Cachy took hardly any time to install and windows is notoriously slow.
I mean if you dont know jack shit about linux or arch and try to follow the guide I’d imagine it could take you quite a while. It took me a while at least.
I did hear Arch is a bit more trouble, yeah. CachyOS was pretty straightforward from desktop environment to automatically detecting hardware and such. Pretty much the same features you see with Windows, just a lot faster.
No offense, but what are you installing it on? One of the things I oversee at my job is imaging. Installing fresh windows on any of our hardware is between 7 and 15 minutes total. Since windows 10 I also haven’t seen any need for additional drivers either unless you have something uncommon or want to replace one. Not trying to defend Windows, I just can’t understand how everyone always has the worst problems imaginable with it.
The vast majority of computer users with those kinds of issues are
- probably using windows home
- On a big box store computer with a platter drive
- an i3 cpu
- and 8gb of ram
windows 10 couldn’t reliably run it’s own bundled software (Mail), by itself, with nothing else open, without that one app going “not responding” every few minutes on a computer with those specs.
Last time i checked, Walmart, best buy, costco, etc were still selling those specs with win11 which is notably bulkier and slower than 10, especially without an ssd, so things have only gotten worse for the average non-power-user.
That’s a perfectly servicible spec for basic operations on a mint install, you could probably even watch netflix or youtube on it with linux, but i wouldn’t want to run windows newer than xp on it.
It doesn’t help that big box retail stores are scam artists.
That was one of the things I hated about Walmart was they would sell these super cheap systems that I kid you not would crash on the demo software.
Like we had an HP flip-style laptop that they sold for $130 a few years back. And it was so bad that we intentionally ran it under a default account instead of a demo account. Because if we installed the demo software on it, Windows would run out of space and blue screen about time windows tried to update it.
In the case I’m referencing, I was installing Windows 11 for a five year old gaming computer using the Windows 10 upgrade software, no USB or anything like that.
Technically I was going to use a custom USB made with Rufus to remove copilot, but by the time I got there they had already started the upgrade process. It really did take two hours, including the 15 minutes before I got there.
Admitting that works, then you’ve only got windows. You still have to install all the tools and productivity software. On any distribution, all that stuff gets installed as a matter of fact, and you’re basically done after 20 minutes or so.
They added a feature to archinstall that times your install and tells you how much it took. My record is 3 minutes, and it wasn’t even on a super powerful gaming computer or anything (it was a lenovo ideapad 5 laptop)
The biggest fucking lie
Updating. Do not turn of computer.
100% complete
Also: “Update and shut down”
Did you say “update and shutdown while also rebooting?”
Coming back to my PC and it being on when I expect it off, along with the notification that I hadn’t used notifications in a while, is what pushed me over the edge to running linux for everything.
Solidworks/PDM at work. 🙄
No it won’t be changing until Win11 actually breaks or dassault scraps PDM(actually as much or more of a trashfire as windows). I’ll just find a new career eventually.
It took me a bit to figure out, but winapps might work for you. A couple of applications I use at work require me to have a windows VM, which is still way less of a headache than straight windows.
Thanks for looking out but sadly it’s a company owned laptop administered by IT.
On my work laptop I boot to Aurora Linux from an USBC caddy with an M2 SSD inside. The laptop’s internal drive is still factory fresh.
Ask your IT guy, he might be cool with that. The laptop itself is unchanged. Windows OEM license untouched.
I believe they have fixed it but it was way too many times I had to click Update and shutdown and it would update and restart. Both home and work.
That’s apparently fixed now. I have to use windows for work and they finally fixed that stupid issue in one of the last couple of updates. It’s still extremely painful to use though.
This right here is exclusively why I had a scheduled event on my window system, where if the computer was still on at 4 in the morning, it would turn itself off.
I never had this issue prior to Windows 10, but update and shutdown felt like an update and maybe shut down because there was a good 20 or 30% chance that when it rebooted to apply the changes, it didn’t turn itself back off again.
I must have had rotten luck because whenever I updated Windows, it would never shut down for me. Eventually, I just stopped using ‘update and shut down’.
Yeah, I had more issues with Windows deciding to shut down without updating than having it not shut down after updating.
Like that would drive me crazy to have checked for updates, have it say your updates are ready to install, press the reboot now button, and it decides that for whatever reason it didn’t want to install the pending updates.
I use win only at work anymore, no choice. Update and shut down is the biggest fucking lie. I press it every time, it never did shut down.
Every. Time.
“…in geological terms.”
I recently figured out that Windows installs can go way faster if you have a slightly better USB stick. I bought an Intenso High Speed Line 64 GB for 10.90€ and it cut down the time by half or even two thirds I would say.
Of course I try to avoid installing Windows in the first place, but I’m not just working on my own machines.
Sure, and Internet speeds probably matter a bit too. The download part was a bit faster than I remember, but then it hung up on the later parts for a while. Lol
Windows 11 took me 7 hours over 3 different days. Had to start and stop multiple times, had to retry multiple times, had to post support requests and wait, and to dive into bios because default settings that worked fine with Linux were making windows kill itself.
Oh yeah, my first try was downloading a Windows ISO and using KDE writer to put it on a USB, BIG mistake because we all know that windows sabotages their ISOs so that you can only burn them with a windows burner program.
Even when it finally worked, it still took a goddamn 2 hours and so many ads, so many “please also buy this!”
Once it was done I had setup windows with steam for my step son and then he didn’t use the machine anyway
I remember installing Arch on an ancient MacBook I’ve got. Set the installer going then put it to one side knowing it was going to take a while.
It took about 7 minutes.
Of course, I then spent two hours trying to get the fucking Broadcom drivers to work, but that’s by the by.
Sounds like me with my eee-PC going through a good chunk of troubleshooting just to find out the reason why Wi-Fi drivers aren’t working is because it’s a 32-bit system and the arch project as a whole decommissioned 32-bit.
They have a dedicated 32-bit system branch, but still wifi driver support on it sucks.
“so i tried to install arch–”
I stopped reading. Learn how to write a sentence and try installing a sensible distro.
Edit: I finished reading it. LOL.
The performance comments were a dead giveaway.
Nobody’s complaints with setting Linux up are that it runs slowly.
It may not run much of anything until you sort out your drivers properly, but it will do everything incorrectly LIGHTNING fast, compared to Windows.
Nobody’s complaints with setting Linux up are that it runs slowly.
I mean, really depends on the device. I’ve got a machine running Mint and it kinda chugs along. But it’s… I want to say at least 15 years old? Probably due for a RAM swap at the very least. Takes about five minutes to fully boot and if I run more than a few apps it drags.
At some point, there’s only so much an OS can do for you.
The bit about incompatible drivers and the mess of third-party installs necessary to get it in a comfortable state also rang true. Plus all the minutea of configuration, so you’re not typing in your password every time you sneeze. Windows does tend to come fully loaded out of the box, even if you’re using a bunch of their mediocre native apps. And the desktop instance tends to be pre-configured to satisfy your average desktop user.
Of course, Apple takes all of this to the next level. Really straight jacking everything you can do so that it’s a unform experience from device to device. And I hate that shit, too, even if my machine boots fast straight out of the box.
Yeah, your 15- year-old device is slow, but let’s see how slow it is with windows 11 installed
I thought Debian was as sluggish as Windows until I was forced to use the LXQt desktop environment instead of the default GNOME on an old Compaq laptop since that’s all it could handle. Turns out, GNOME looks nice but it kept my old laptop’s mid-2000s i386 CPU churning at 50% 24/7. LXQt? Barely a blip. Sure, it couldn’t run Firefox quickly, but at least its fan was silent when idling or when I was simply using the laptop as a dumb SSH client into a much more powerful remote server.
I now use LXQt on my main workstation because I don’t need fancy tilíng windows or Wayland.
I now use LXQt on my main workstation because I don’t need fancy tilíng windows or Wayland.
You can have fancy tiling windows and Wayland without Gnome! Wayland is actually pretty great for low-resource devices, I recently did a glmark benchmark on a Raspberry Pi 3B, and on the Wayland session (with the wayland version of glmark) I got about double the score of the Xorg session (with the xorg versioni of glmark). It’s just that Raspberry Pi OS’s Wayland session doesn’t use Gnome, but LabWC.
And I always configure my LXQt desktop with a tiling wm, works great and looks great IMO. Plus, the LXQt devs are working on making it fully Wayland-compatible.
Not true. They complain because of no hardware decoding, defaults lacking GPU acceleration, they complain about KDEs file manager, Gimp, Libre Office, etc. If you had problems with Windows, maybe consider ‘skill issue’.
Nobody’s complaints with setting Linux up are that it runs slowly.
Eehh… I put Mint on my old laptop, and it was like being stuck in a tar, even though it ran Windows 10 without problems. In the end I just switched it, to another distro, and now it works fine.
but… if you are new why… arch? jsut use idk mint?
Yeah I clocked the twist halfway through, Linux isn’t perfect but most are simply not Linux issues.
