Stop all infant genital mutilation.
Not just circumcision but also de-intersex-ification.
When a baby is born with both types of genitals what usually happens is that the male ones are immediately removed and the person is raised as a woman. This is unethical. The infant cannot consent to being mutilated, it is an infant. Ban this barbaric practice.
Good to see these young heros fighting the good fight
religion is a poison
oh hi vanta 👋 :)
I’ve never understood it, even for religious reasons. It’s not medically necessary, and it weakens your sex organ’s ability to do the thing it is supposed to do.
It actually is medically necessary if the foreskin is too tight (phimosis). I had it done on the doctor’s recommendation and my sex life life greatly improved. But this was as an adult, so not really the same thing.
Yeah, but that’ super rare. Only around 0.6% of boys experience it before they’re 15. Even if you’re born with true pathological phimosis, circumcision is usually a last resort because topical steroids are safer and have a pretty high success rate.
“The incidence of pathological phimosis is 0.4 per 1000 boys per year or 0.6% of boys are affected by their 15th birthday.”
For cultural reasons, it probably developed as a valuable tribal in-grouping check.
How do we know for sure you are one of us and not a spy or an infiltrator… Well, if you are an ancient Tribal Jewish person you have a special trick to prove you are in the group.
it weakens your sex organ’s ability to do the thing it is supposed to do.
I thought you didn’t understand?
Fair enough. But if that’s the point…why? You’d just be making it harder to reproduce at that point
Its no harder to reporduce, just doesn’t feel as good
As a bi Guy, I just think they look better without the foreskin. That being said, DM not going to advocate for having the skin cut off just for aesthetics or handwavey notions of hygiene
I see that there are very little cases where it is needed.
I think its also very telling that this post gets so much traction with dudes acting like its a mayor cultural abuse of men while scarcely connecting to other genital mutilation happening to women or even the fact that most medical edvances are still focust on mens health with some medication having serious sie effects for women like for example a pill to stop pregnancies that alot of men just expect to take even though it fucks up the hormonal balance.
I just wish the men on lemmy could see how we all could benifit from targeting the baseline problems partriachy brings us.
All this energy in the comments could be so usefull.
" gets so much traction with dudes acting like its a mayor cultural abuse of men while scarcely connecting to other genital mutilation happening to women"
FGM is already illegal in the states, otherwise i’m sure the constant comparison would matter more. also why are we making zero sum games for progressives when making a progressive safe environment would give more rights to everyone?
this is one of the frustrating points of contention that managed to get atheists and feminists fighting each-other rather than fighting groups like the heritage foundation well over a decade ago. i legitimately believe a lot of people pushing the need to suggest that somehow people are pretending FGM is being dismissed whenever addressing MGM are just bots/instigators trying to get people fighting. that is stupid. nobody is arguing this. why are we making this divisive bullshit salient and real?
“all genital mutilation is bad. it’s fucked up that it’s still legal in any capacity.” =/= “we hate women.”
even almost twenty years ago, saying “this is stupid, we should be supporting each-other progressively in rights and freedoms against thing like religious mutilation of baby genitals, and stopping religiously empowered political groups from dominating the discourse,” earned an inbox full of mutilated penis imagery, because somehow feminism is supposed to somehow be incompatible with a world where male babies don’t get their genitals mutilated to show that it’s just “not as bad” or something. ignore the kids who die from infection or w/e.
this was successfully made into the dominant social response in any context.
then we saw a couple decades of atheists and feminists being too distracted defending against incel/SJW branding to do anything about the fascist takeover, and progressives, dejected, vacated spaces allowing whole new incel chud armies to breed and take over. you’d think some would see this as a backfiring, but “it proves our point” so we won’t think about that.
i just wish i would stop seeing the same completely unnecessary divisive arguments that have helped groups like the heritage foundation get into power to remove rights for EVERYONE.
helping men =/= helping the patriarchy.
luckily, it looks like this thread is full of non-divisive conversation on the subject. this makes me happier.
heritage foundation types are destroying the world, we need solidarity and action focused at the problem, rather than anger at trans people wanting basic human rights, or at atheists/activists for wanting to remove classic religious patriarchal baby genital cutting traditions, because being against that makes you the patriarchy somehow. etc.
Calling unnecessary circumcision of boys “genital mutilation” sounds frivolous because it makes it sound like you’re placing it alongside FGM in terms of its effects and severity. But it is nevertheless genital mutilation, by just about any definition you care to put forward. The men living in the non-circumcision-crazed countries of the world aren’t constantly having their blackened rotten cocks drop off from all the dick disease they’re allegedly exposed to by having an intact penis, so I don’t understand why you would feel the need to do this to your kid without a specific medical reason (of which there are very few that require surgical removal of the skin).
“But if you don’t wash it, it gets dickcheese!” and the solution to that is slicing the fucking skin off of it? The clue is in the warning: wash it. Teach your sons to care for their wilberts. Telling them to lather up their bellend in the shower is hardly something that needs prompting anyway.
Personal/intimate hygiene should be part of regular schooling. Not even as part of sex ex, just “how to care for your vessel” kinda shit. Don’t drink to excess, walk and move at least 10 minutes a day, stay away from illegal drugs, be careful with prescription drugs, and wash your bastard stinksausage.
As an American who wasn’t circumcised, this country is so fucking weird about it. Like I got teased for it occasionally. People talk about hygiene, but from what I hear you’re unlikely to find a guy who cleans his asshole but not his foreskin. Like, do what you want with your body, get circumcised if you want, bifurcate the thing if you want, I don’t even have a dick anymore, but circumcising babies is taking that freedom away from them for reasons that always sound ludicrous to me.
And for the attractiveness thing, I’ve had exes who think foreskin is really hot, and personally I think dicks look super weird without it.
There was an uncircumcised kid at my daycare we made fun of. We didn’t know why his was different than ours and thought HE was the weird one. Turns out no, it was our dumbass parents and the asshole doctors who did that to us that were the problem.
It’s interesting that the pro circumcision crowd who rant about hygiene don’t support girls having their labia cut off to prevent grime from accumulating between the folds. Circumcision should be reserved for actual medical reasons, like phimosis, and if possible at age of consent.
If you don’t wash behind your ears, bacteria will grow and cause it to smell. By their logic, they should be chopping off ears as well.
The purpose of circumcision is to make maturation and sex less pleasurable as it removes about 1/3 of sensory nerves and meant to make it more difficult to masturbate because you can’t just pull on tight skin. You can still perform the basic acts of sex and masturbation, but it’s not as pleasurable. Likewise, one can still hear without ears even if it’s not as good as those with intact ears.
Just goes to show how insane these people are.
Jeez, if you make masturbation MORE pleasurable, teenage boys will never get anything done. It would single-handedly (pun not intended, but I’ll take it) crash the gaming industry.
and if possible at age of consent.
While I agree with the majority of the argument, I don’t agree with this point. Age of consent is mainly a political thing, disregarding the actualities involved with teenagers and sexual life.
Biologically, pubescence which is around 13 is where this decision should be undertaken, as this is the point where the individual is sexually mature.
The age of consent is not the age of sexual maturity for a reason. Girls as young as 6 can start their periods and can get pregnant, but they’re not mature enough to make informed decisions about their reproductive health, or really anything in general.
The “hygiene” argument just shows me how backwards Americans are
Have the stupid cunts not heard of soap?
You are meant to wash under the foreskin obviously but only with water. Soap is generally considered too harsh for that area
But obviously there are times one uses soap. It’s part inside, part outside. You have to keep outside out of inside.
What is this “soap” you speak of?
As a young child I didn’t know I had to wash between my toes, and I got athletes foot.
If only a kind doctor had cut all my toes off when I was born.
shit
Kinda fucked up how people basically ignore the fact that we do genital mutilation in America.
Yeah but it’s to boys so who cares? /s
Its actually hurtful to watch the strong opposition to cirumcision involving girls yet barely any opposition involving boys. It looks like another take on sexism and like one commenter said, it makes it more difficult for trans people.
Circumcision for both genders should only be a medical decision, not a thing you or your parents decide just because.
I get where you’re coming from, and I absolutely don’t want to minimise anyone’s pain, but circumcision is not really equivalent to FGM in terms of consequences.
graphic detail
Often FGM includes removal of the clitoris and some of the vulva, leaving girls with a tiny aperture sealed with scar tissue requiring new fully torn flesh to achieve penetration, and girls and women who have been mutilated in this way are usually unable to feel any pleasure during sex, only pain. FGM much more like having the whole glans chopped off and half of the two sides of the wound sewn together than it is like male circumcision.
Feel very free to firmly oppose circumcision, but please don’t suggest that FGM is the same. It really really really isn’t. It’s very very different in what’s removed, very very different in how much ongoing pain it causes, very very different in the effect on sensation, and it’s not equivalent.
It’s like suggesting that it’s not fair that people treat cars running into people so much seriously than bikes running into people, except everyone, whether they ride a bicycle or a car, can see how incorrect that is, whereas a vast number of prior have no idea how brutal FGM is, which is how you end up with people claiming circumcision is just as bad. I mean, don’t get me wrong. It’s bad. But it’s in a whole different level and world of consequences for the girl than for the boy.
I agree but you’re missing the point. It’s (primarily) not about the harm it does, it’s about consent not having been given. Newborns cannot consent to such things. They cannot make such a decision. Parents do not have the right to make such a decision, nor does anyone except the person themself.
Yeah, men aren’t allowed to talk about it. If we do, we’re questioning doctors, so we look stupid, and we’re questioning women, who all (in my experience) say they aesthetically prefer it, so we look sexist. We’re never going to win with that opposition. That’s why it’s not even a topic of discussion. It’s been decided for us, and we didn’t get a vote.
That why they do it to us as babies, so we can’t fight it. If they waited, we’d NEVER do it.
Not having kids, but it was done to me and I’m fine with it.
I’ve been in a relationship for ages now, but before that all the womem I asked said that preferred cut over uncut. Literally. All. Of. Them. It was at least a dozen.
But hey, don’t let me disrupt this whole… Uhh… Thing you guys got going on this thread.
If you are fine with being circumcised, that seems like the best possible outcome and I’m glad you are happy with your body in that way. However, many people were circumcised and are not fine with it. After all, it is a choice made for them without their consent. Also, it shouldn’t matter what women prefer. It should be your body, your choice. If someone wants to get circumcised later in life, that is their choice.
Literally no thoughtful or reasonable sexual partner is going to say they prefer the type of penis it’s impossible for you to have, so that data is wildly biased.
I’m a woman and I’ve been with both. I don’t really care either way (and I feel confident most women who have actually been with both don’t really care) but my best lasting lover by far was uncut. I will not circumcise any sons I have.
Also in America cut is so normal that people may prefer it because they’re used to it.
But also, it’s fucking wild to argue to cut a piece off your baby’s genitals because of what future partners may mildly prefer. I wasn’t circumcised because my mom was firmly against the practice and I’m grateful for that.
And to add my anecdotes, back when I had a dick the foreskin never got in the way of me getting laid, and one ex was super excited to learn I had it.
You’re obviously American, as were the women
It’s ok, we in the civilised world already think you’re stupid, your attitude towards mutilating the dicks of little boys is just another reason why we do.
Men in many African countries also overwhelmingly prefer their women cut. Coincidence?
it’s wild to me how many let this one thing dominate their entire identity and rail against their parents for it.
Our parents are fallible. Its okay to point out the fucked up shit they did to us and say “this shit is fucked up”
Yes, because that’s what they’re used to. That’s not nothing. But in Australia I’ve had the opposite experience. Every single one saying they prefer uncut. It’s just what you’re exposed to.
People prefer what’s familiar, in cultures where it’s not the norm they prefer uncut.
The mistake in all of this discussion is making those who are circumsized feel ashamed about it at all. No one should feel bad about being circumsized.
Now that that’s out of way, that’s a pretty weak counterargument. Your justification for why we should keep doing it is that society prefers it? That’s exactly the thing that’s finally being pushed back against. It’s inherently a barbaric practice that serves no medical purpose (for the large majority) and is purely aesthetic, and we’re doing it to newborn babies so they can look like their daddies and keep the social norm alive.
You don’t have anything to feel bad about and it’s great that it hasn’t been a hindrance for you, but as soon as one generation stops, your argument will be moot.
The only shaming I’ve seen in this thread so far is of the parents who made that decision, and rightly so. People like the guy you replied to are perpetuating the issue by being so nonchalant about it.
Its like 10 in² removed by circumcision. Not necessarily length or girth from your dick. But 10 in² of incredibly sensitive skin on your sex organ.
I can’t speak for everyone but I am an average sized uncut USian, and mine foreskin is pretty tight when erect to the point I think it might be painful if I was cut. I wonder if there’s anyone who got circumcised post puberty that can chime in.
Look up phimosis. It’s pretty common from my understanding but I had to get circumcised a few years back from it. Starts with a bit of tearing around the opening of the foreskin which will eventually turn into scar tissue. Then things start getting painful. You can make cranking your hog not painful, but sex and even just full erections were painful.
I do miss my little hooded member, sex doesnt feel the same way as it used to, and I don’t last as long in bed but hey… no more pain and split foreskins these days!
It’s actually decently common. Sorry you had to do it though.
I remember the scrubs episode. Sorry you gotta go through that.
I’m a grower and pretty big. When I got to puberty basically every erection was painful. It took a couple years for the skin to stretch so it didn’t hurt. If I ever have a child in this fucked up world I will kill someone before I let them mutilate my child the way I was.
Yes. Cut male here. For the first five or so years of my sexually active time, when I would get a particularly vigorous erection the skin below my glans would literally tear in random places around the circumference. It was quite painful but has thankfully stopped now and Im left with just some scars.
When my son was born I refused to let him out of my sight until every staff member was able to assure me he would not be circumcised.
Parents: do NOT circumcise your children, it’s barbaric.
New imperial unit for area dropped.
The squinch
Shit
(Did I follow the instructions in the title correctly?)
No one said post it after typing…
Nah you capitalized it
Do you know why UK men are rarely circumcized when it’s the norm in the U.S?
At some point the UK government says that circumcision wouldn’t be covered by the national health insurance.
And just like that. It went out of fashion.
I’m sure the greedy U.S insurance companies would be more than happy to stop covering that service.
Fight fire with fire.
Get the insurance companies to stop covering it. And we can finally save boys from being mutilated.
A kid died in Australia because a doctor botched the circumcision of a toddler and he went septic.
Barbaric cultural practise to do it to children, but I do think it’s fine if they medically need it or you are an adult and want it done.
Yeah adults can decide and of course it treats conditions like phimosis which is when the foreskin is super tight.
Not just UK most of the world is uncircumcised, it’s only a thing in Abrahamic religions and USA
it’s only a thing in Abrahamic religions
Christianity is an abrahamic religion and afaik does not have anything to with this anywhere except the US.
Yeah cause mutilating baby genitals is bad. Most people get that.
But also my example was to illustrate how the trend was changed in the UK and perhaps it’s a possible way to do the same in the U.S.
Watch 'em start trying to do it at home.
Well unlike making abortion illegal, making it so that insurance won’t cover it just means you would have to pay for it.
And I’m sure some still will.
But I can’t see too many people trying to do it at home.
People is the US are just brain dead “christian” morons
It may have started that way, but nowadays it’s normalized to the point where it’s something most people just automatically do. Any harm to the person undergoing this is waved away and rationalized as “it will hurt for just a second and they won’t remember it anyway”.
After my brother-in-law had his boy, he proudly announced they were taking him to be circumcized. Taken aback, I asked him why - he’s one of the most non-religious people I’ve ever known. I was just met by an empty stare, as if I were the weird one for asking. Sadly, at this point it might be more popular than the essential vaccines which are supposed to be administered at birth.
People is the US are just brain dead
“christian”moronsOk, ftfy
yeah that’s not entirely wrong sadly
I don’t think Christianity requires circumcising
Nothing requires circumcising
Ouuuu hot take. Never said anything did, but your Christian reference implies that Christianity does.
They do it anyways for sexual control
amab genital mutilation makes bottom surgery more complicated for transfems
yes it’s also immoral and shouldn’t be done on infants of any gender who can’t give consent (and should be illegal, as should intersex genital mutilation, aka “surgical correction”)
Yeah, though American bottom surgeons are so used to it they see the foreskin as making it easier rather than the lack of it making it more difficult. At least that’s how it was for my surgeon
Huh, didn’t even occur to me there would be trans complications as well.
I want my foreskin back. I’m thinking about restoring mine.
from all of the research I’ve done into the matter, it’s a huge amount of work/effort for not much of a payoff. there are a lot of options/paths to go down, and - admittedly - it’s been almost a 15 years since I really looked into it, so there may have been some worthwhile advances since then, but, given the state of things at the time, I doubt it.
but I don’t mean to discourage you, and what I might have deemed “worth it” or not, you might feel differently. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’ve mostly restored mine and am very happy with it that way, took years although I would get lazy and take breaks often. Not the same as never having done it but definitely glad I put the effort in. Nice to be able to go all day with it covered and it does improve sensitivity and function in a lot of ways. I was happy with my penis before too, just wanted to get the most out of it.
One of the reddit communities I miss is foreskin restoration, got quite a few good tips there. Maybe something like that could happen here.
What method did you use to restore it if I may ask?
I don’t mean to discourage you
hey, if you chose the path of restoration, I intend nothing but support. I apologize if you felt that I intended anything else. I misspoke!
Oh no offense taken, to each their own. I just didn’t want casual readers to think the process is harder than it actually is or that it doesn’t produce worthwhile results. I’m as surprised as anyone, who’d have thought something like that could be somewhat reversed!
We will never get the nerves back. It’s not just a lump of unfeeling skin that covers the glans. That’s what stops me from trying. Like yeah I can stretch it to cover the glans when it’s soft but I will never get the sensation back. That was stolen from me by people who were meant to care for me, and I will always have the scars.
What do you call a discount circumcision?
A ripoff.
