Mental Illness is a pretty vague thing to define. My general understanding is that it’s anything that would prevent someone from living a full and productive life, the individual can form friendships, relationships, maintain healthy romantic relationships if they want, work a job, have dreams and aspirations, generally make plans, take care of themselves and their hygiene, and so on. Correct me if I’m wrong.
The issue is that mental illness is really a disorder and is something clinically significant. The reason we don’t categorise gender incongruence or homosexuality as a disorder is because neither of them necessarily meet that criteria - the main issue really being how society treats them. Trans people can have gender dysphoria which can be a clinically significant symptom of incongruence, but it isn’t something specific to trans people - cis people can experience gender dysphoria, such as men with gynecomastia who can experience the same kind of persistant distress about their body not entirely matching their gender.
There are some arguments on both sides to argue that gender dysphoria is a mental illness or disorder but the whole point is that not every trans person experiences it. Other aspects of depression, anxiety etc. leading to self-harm are disorders but can be caused by society bullying, harassing, legislating against their existance and generally marginalising and discriminating when they wouldn’t necessarily have that issue otherwise
Yeah what’s external from the body and mind of an individual is a whole other story aka the society in which they are in. It’s sometimes a dangerous perspective but I do tend to see issues more so as technological issues. With this circumstance it’s not an issue I see with an individual that they feel they don’t match their body but that our technology is so limited that we can’t change form as easily as we change clothes. The illness or lacking isn’t an aspect of the individual but in our current technological abilities as a species. With sufficient technology any will should be unbounded so long as it is not causing needless and avoidable suffering to another sentient being. If for instance we can upload a mind and inhabit a virtual space then we may achieve this sooner than we think. In what we consider “actual” or “physical” reality, it’s going to take a lot more time and effort.
I really don’t care about the opinions of people who configure their entire lives around a Mass Delusional/ Torture/ Cannibalism/ Human Sacrifice/ Zombie Death Cult, led by an Imaginary Friend, who always needs money, for some reason.
Michelle is correct
Hey, this is a great place to figure out which deranged religious cunts to block. If you do everything your shitty invisible friend says, raise your hand. Then stick it so far up your ass that you tickle the place where your frontal lobe should be
No if. Putting if in there excuses those who don’t believe in a sky figure.
Just don’t call transgender people mentally ill.
Ok. Good.
Carry on.
What the hell is going on with Lemmy lately? We’ve got transphobia here and furrie hate over in Lemmy Shitpost.
Isn’t this post criticizing transphobia?
Lots of pro-AI sentiment too. Doesn’t seem coincidental.
I’m not allowed to like AI? It is so handy! It made me a browser extension that exports browser har files for analysis.
Oh please, anything that isn’t “using AI makes you Hitler” is considered “pro-AI sentiment” around here.
Found the pro AI sentiment! /j
People out here really believing in sky daddy
I’m all for Trans-rights… I don’t give a shit what you want to do, call yourself, dress, etc…
but also, it’s a mental illness
That doesn’t mean it’s bad but also you’re not suppose to think you’re a different gender or whatever
I have anxiety. That’s a mental illness. It’s fine. I’m fine. It doesn’t devalue me as a human. But also, I don’t think I’m suppose to believe everything is going to kill me every second of every day. That’s a mental illness for sure
I have no problem admitting that because I’m happy with who I am
Fucking hell, man, the tech-bro alt-right pipeline has really done a number on you, hasn’t it?
What’s your favorite episode of Joe Rogan?
Just wanted to pop in here and call your ideas miserable and unintelligent before you delete your post later.
You’re a fuckwit
You keep defending Elmo’s nazi salute
You don’t have any credibility. You’re a troll.
This is the healthy way to look at things. Obviously people who suffer severe mental anguish because they are delusional(defined as having a false believe or opinion) and by others refusing to indulge them in same delusion, have a mental illness. Regardless of if this delusion pertains to gender, race, age, divine status etc.
Does this mean they are less worthy of our respect? No. But just like we criticize the religious for imposing their delusions on us, we should be free to criticize other delusional groups who say that we have to acknowledge them or suffer social or legal ramifications.
Trans people don’t have a “false belief”. No trans person says that they were actually born female or male or something. Their claim is simply that their gender is incongruent with their sex, which is a true statement. And it is absurd to say that religious people who are trying to ban books, proclaim Jesus is King in state law, and make the U.S. a theocratic nation are the same as trans people wanting to keep their medical care and not be ostracized simply for who they are.
suffer social ramifications
So you want to be able to say or do anything you want to about trans people, but you want them to not be able to say or do anything back 🤦♀️. You have the right to free speech, and so do others. Cry about it.
I recommend watching https://youtu.be/pVzRrQrc-90 which has a biologist talking about pretty much this topic.
Trans people don’t have a “false belief”. No trans person says that they were actually born female or male or something.
Sure, but they do believe that they currently are a woman.
Their claim is simply that their gender is incongruent with their sex, which is a true statement.
Sure, if this is their only claim. There are many trans women who claim to be actual women. You agree that this is delusional then?
And it is absurd to say that religious people who are trying to ban books, proclaim Jesus is King in state law, and make the U.S. a theocratic nation are the same as trans people wanting to keep their medical care and not be ostracized simply for who they are.
Sure, but it is the same as the trans people who are pushing laws that would make it illegal to “misgender” a trans person. Essentially “I feel like a woman and you have to acknowledge that this feeling is valid, or suffer for it.”
So you want to be able to say or do anything you want to about trans people, but you want them to not be able to say or do anything back 🤦♀️. You have the right to free speech, and so do others. Cry about it.
You’d get upset if you had to refer to Jews as “god’s chosen people” or to Christians as anything but “nutcases”, but you are fine with being forced to acknowledge that a man born a man is now a woman. I am not. I can stretch to trans woman.
“Actual woman” is meaningless. If their gender is incongruent with their sex and they are male, it follows logically that they are women. There are also arguments about medically transitioned trans people being the opposite of their sex assigned at birth, as they come to fit the sexual characteristics of their gender identity.
I’m not aware of any laws making it illegal to misgender someone, and even if I grant you that it still isn’t comparable at all. Preferred pronouns aren’t the same as “God’s chosen people”. The latter implies that a God that watches you masturbate in your room exists, while the former only has you acknowledge what has already been acknowledged by the best medical professionals in the world, of which I suppose you see yourself smarter than.
Trans women aren’t “born men”. A baby isn’t a man. They were born male and they found out their gender identity to be incongruent with their sex later in life.
“Actual woman” is meaningless.
You are right. Words have absolutely no meaning.
If their gender is incongruent with their sex and they are male, it follows logically that they are women.
No. It follows logically that they are male, because you literally said it. They are a male who feels like they are female.
There are also arguments about medically transitioned trans people being the opposite of their sex assigned at birth, as they come to fit the sexual characteristics of their gender identity.
They don’t though. They may present as outwardly different, but their genetics, internal sexual organs, basic physical morphology etc. is still what they were born as.
I’m not aware of any laws making it illegal to misgender someone,
https://uslawexplained.com/misgendering
and even if I grant you that it still isn’t comparable at all. Preferred pronouns aren’t the same as “God’s chosen people”.
It isn’t identical, but it is analogous.
The latter implies that a God that watches you masturbate in your room exists, while the former only has you acknowledge what has already been acknowledged by the best medical professionals in the world, of which I suppose you see yourself smarter than.
Appeal to authority and also false. It isn’t a settled topic. Plenty of biologists still hold that the male/female distinction on a biological basis is useful. Even if some people confuse sex and gender.
Trans women aren’t “born men”. A baby isn’t a man. They were born male and they found out their gender identity to be incongruent with their sex later in life.
Correct. Which in no way means that we need to acknowledge that they are anything other than what they were born as.
Oh thank your god-- your words don’t mean anything? I guess we can stop reading here, then :3
Like you know how to read. Cute.
Words have absolutely no meaning.
That’s not what I said, that’s just what you want me to say. Women are women and men are men. Actual is meaningless here.
I never said that trans women were “a male that feels like a female”, I said that their gender is incongruent with their sex, and you agreed with it. Gender and sex aren’t the same phenomenon. Gender refers to the typical psychological and sociocultural traits that are usually congruent with one’s sex, while sex refers to strictly to one’s biology.
Cis women may also have XY chromosomes (XY gonadal dysgenesis) and internal testes. Discarding other primary and secondary sexual characteristics just to disregard trans people just makes you seem more ignorant.
It isn’t identical, but it is analogous.
Wanting you to not be a douchebag isn’t analogous to wanting you to accept their religion.
Appeal to authority and also false. It isn’t a settled topic. Plenty of biologists still hold that the male/female distinction on a biological basis is useful. Even if some people confuse sex and gender.
😂 Addressing the scientific consensus isn’t appeal to authority. I’m not saying “This person is a doctor so they must be right” I’m pointing to the consensus of WMA which is a gigantic WHO-partnered organization. The same is also visible for the majority of major medical organizations in the U.S.
Plenty of biologists also hold the view that evolution isn’t real, and that doesn’t affect the consensus. This issue was also mostly settled already before it became a political point.
And nobody is saying that we should get rid of the male/female distinction.
Correct. Which in no way means that we need to acknowledge that they are anything other than what they were born as.
Disregarding the fact that this statement doesn’t disagree with my point, I hope you’re not as stupid as to not see this entailing calling grown-ass people babies.
Women are women and men are men. Actual is meaningless here.
Agreed. Just like cis-woman/man is meaningless.
I never said that trans women were “a male that feels like a female”,
Correct. I did.
I said that their gender is incongruent with their sex, and you agreed with it.
Yes.
Gender and sex aren’t the same phenomenon.
Agreed.
Gender refers to the typical psychological and sociocultural traits that are usually congruent with one’s sex, while sex refers to strictly to one’s biology.
Yupp.
Cis women may also have XY chromosomes (XY gonadal dysgenesis) and internal testes.
You confuse sex and gender here. We call these people intersex, because they fall somewhere on the spectrum of the bimodal sexual distribution axis. Males has xy chromosomes and females have xx.
Discarding other primary and secondary sexual characteristics just to disregard trans people just makes you seem more ignorant.
Precision is the opposite of ignorance.
Wanting you to not be a douchebag isn’t analogous to wanting you to accept their religion.
Agreed, but if I have to go along with their religion in order to not be branded a douche bag, the distinction is meaningless.
😂 Addressing the scientific consensus isn’t appeal to authority. I’m not saying “This person is a doctor so they must be right” I’m pointing to the consensus of WMA which is a gigantic WHO-partnered organization. The same is also visible for the majority of major medical organizations in the U.S.
There is currently no scientific consensus regarding the nature of gender as it pertains to sex. Much less regarding if sex is immutable or not.
Plenty of biologists also hold the view that evolution isn’t real, and that doesn’t affect the consensus. This issue was also mostly settled already before it became a political point.
Pardon me, but which consensus was that?
And nobody is saying that we should get rid of the male/female distinction.
No, just make the terms meaningless by broadening them to include anyone who identifies as male/female.
Disregarding the fact that this statement doesn’t disagree with my point, I hope you’re not as stupid as to not see this entailing calling grown-ass people babies.
Male=baby.
Calling trans people delusional gtfo here with your transphobia.
If you believe something that isn’t true it is, by definition, a delusion. Some trans people feel like their sex and gender are incongruent. Fine. Some trans women think they literally are women. This is delusional.
That guy is a cunt, consistently
I am not the cunt that celebrates murder of my political adversaries.
I’m blocking you
You’re tiresome
Thank fuck for that.
We’re pretty sure what you mean is that dysphoria is a mental condition/symptom, not a mental illness. Being trans isn’t a mental illness, it’s a valid response. That’s like saying “this person in a very small cage wants to get out and is even screaming for it, they have a mental illness”
Mental symptoms/responses aren’t illnesses, they’re side effects due to environmental or social pressure. It’s not an internal issue like anxiety, depression, autism, etc since it’s a symptom.
As a trans woman ourselves, we’ve had dysphoria for a long time (a symptom from societal pressure of forcing us to be a man due to our sex at birth) was forced into things we didn’t have interests in and refused access to being who we are because we’re not the complete perfect woman in other’s eyes. We were essentially locked into a social sall cage and everyone outside called us a man, got told that our feelings don’t matter because it’s an illness, got told that God themself will abandon us if we continued acting up like a “prissy girl.” It wasn’t in our head, but because of that and even now with the constant “you have to be beautiful to be a woman” still sticks to us, and many other women.
So yeah, it’s not a mental illness, a mental illness is our DID, our Autism, our Anxiety too. Our disability is nerve damage ans chronic pains. But being trans is our pride, pride against the system, pride against the society, pride against the church, pride against the hate, not a mental illness because we’re not confused in who we are.
We know you probably don’t mean ill will, but that kind of thinking is the edge those bastards have against us, and we one your not one of them, so we’re just speaking up.
🏳️⚧️ sending out all our love, hope your feeling better today and further more.
yeah, I looked it up thanks to your post… you are correct. It is not technically a mental illness it is dysmorphia.
Which, hey, I learned something, so thanks
But the point stands. We can argue all day about what is, “normal”, but it’s not typical to think you’re a man trapped in a womans body and yeah, there might be something slightly wrong if that’s the case. But that’s ok, there’s something slightly wrong with all of us.
Which, again, opens the argument about “normal”. Is it “normal” to have anxiety? I mean, lots of people do have it. Is it normal to be transgender, lots of people are.
But again, my point is, don’t hide from it, love who you are and accept it.
Yeah, I’m a bit fucked up but that’s OK because that’s what makes me, me; and I love being me. I’m me and I’m proud!
Just a quick question, feel free to ignore, but how do you square the cognitively dissonant ideas that:
- Gender is entirely socially constructed and not at all related to your biology or your behavior.
with
- Transgender individuals suffer dysphoria because their biological bodies are misaligned with their socially constructed and self perceived gender?
We’ll try our best to answer, note I of the group aren’t great with specifics like Lily above-Basil
Gender is a part of your personal identity, think it as like a starter kit of sorts maybe? Then your decisions and interests further your personality and interests, and just like how people label sexualities, gender can be labeled as such (think extreme cliches like he/him likes monster trucks, she/her likes barbies.) However, your socially perceived gender is started off with your doctor and family and that starts off of your sex at birth (not your chromosomes, not your bone structure, not of your hair, etc etc) solely based off of the genitalia (sing even go further determining gender before birth like gender reveal (really cringe imo.))
So yeah, a social precieved gender is put on you and would normally bet like a starter kit for you to formulate with
As for the second part with extension from the first, your self perceived gender or base of identity is different than that of what was put towards you, weather that’s opposite gender like ourselves, no gender, or another kind all together, it’s like a base of identity you stack everything else that you care about upon it. So the “dysphoria” is the incorrect personal perception of themselves that is then heightened by the whole social standing of the social perception.
Again thinking in extremes (but some true feelings we ourselves experience) like how trans people are held up to high standards and must have the ideal passing for other people’s idea of gender. Women with no body hair, big boobs, long neat hair, etc. It’s impossible and most cis women don’t meet most of that, but trans women are faced with those standards in order to be treated as equals.
For trans men are to be expected as tall, muscular, mustache/beard, emotionally stone, a deep voice, etc while- again many cis men don’t meet those standards but that again are the standards trans men face.)
With those societal pressures, it’s no wonder that trans people also feel that along with their own perception of gender that they must conform to, and with the vicious cycle of trying to be more so you feel you are and being denied thats not masculine, feminine, non binary, etc enough. It just cycles into a box you to fit in, with no room to stack anything else for your own interests/hobbies.
-Basil
TLDR: 1- yes, 2- Physical and mental don’t match their own and social perception of the person’s gender. -Basil/PJ/Sunny/Gem
Hope that answers what you were wondering.
Am I talking to a system?
Yes, yellow
k
Gender is typically congruent with one’s sex, it isn’t completely unrelated to one’s biology. Gender identity also seems to have a neuroanatomic component to it.
“Their socially constructed and self perceived gender” is meaningless. Trans people’s gender identity is incongruent with their sex. That’s it.
That is not what the study found: “Rather than being merely shifted towards either end of the male-female spectrum, transgender persons seem to present with their own unique brain phenotype.”
So trans people seem to have an abnormal brain, rather than a brain more physiologically like their perceived gender. This makes sense since a lot of mental illness can cause detrimental physical alterations on the brain. Depression is one such example: https://www.webmd.com/depression/depression-physical-effects-brain
So racist AND transphobic. Fucking kill yourself.
Excuse me? Are you alright buddy?
I would have to agree with their assessment of you. It would be a net benefit to the world as a whole.
It is what the study found. I didn’t say anything about it being shifted towards either end of a spectrum, I said that it seems to have a neuroanatomical component.
Sexual orientation also has a neuroanatomic component to it, or an “abnormal brain” if we use your words. Do you think that homosexual people are also mentally ill, or that that is just natural human diversity. Because that would be a weird double-standard.
You misunderstand me. The negative emotions associated with transgender identity is the mental illness. Just like someone can be a so called “self hating gay”. The issue arises when the rest of society is forced to acknowledge that a trans person actually is the thing they imagine themselves to be. Your rights end where mine begin.
You misunderstand me. The negative emotions associated with transgender identity is the mental illness.
Do you think that everyone has the same amount of attention span that you do? You realize that we can scroll up to see your original reply where you say that mental illness is characterized by “an abnormal brain” right?
Trans people having negative emotions isn’t because of societal acceptance, it’s the opposite. The issue arises when people disregard trans people’s experiences and call them “mentally ill”, and even refuse care proven to work on the basis of calling them mentally ill.
Sorry I infringed on your right to call me “he” lmao.
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:28
an argument against identity politics?
Oh wow, many ownage, such chuds…
Updoots for the amazing content. The world is a better place…
I’m not Christian, but from what I’ve read of Jesus, he’d want us to love and respect trans folk. You know, along with the widow, the orphan, the disabled, the foreigner and so on.
What the bible shows us is that hatred of the other, to the point of violence, is an old, old problem, and we actually have to put effort into exercising tolerance.
I learned this stuff from Sesame Street and Saturday-morning cartoons in the 1970s, a message that seems to have been lost since.
My uncle went on a rant that god made people think they were transgender as a test to see if they would choose him. I asked “What if god made those people transgender to test if YOU would be nice to them?”
I’m not invited to his house anymore.
Congrats, his house sounds like a place to avoid.
You won twice
Your uncle went, “logic? In this house of mine? Heavens, no.”
The actual biblical point is a nuanced one.
The actual biblical point can suck my balls.
It’s not really nuanced. For any of that to make sense the starting point has to be grounded in hate. You have to believe that being trans, or engaging in whatever xyz acts (sexual or otherwise) with or as a trans person is sinful. On top of that you have to even agree and believe in the very concept of sin and there being some reward/punishment system for if you do or don’t sin.
So yeah, no there’s no nuance when the starting point for your opinion is “being trans = automatic sinner.”
It’s also bullshit
Of all the things that never happened… This right here.slaps top never happened the most.
Damn, you’ve made being a dickhead your entire personality, huh?
No, really I am more of a degenerate. And your name has piqued my interest.
Are you a fan of those who fist, like myself? Or are you one who fists and is enthused?
He is the kind of gentleman who thinks it is funny to laugh at political assassinations. When they happen to people from the other side of the political divide. If anyone laughed at his political paragon, he would cut your head off, of course.
I will never not laugh about how ol chuck kicked the bucket.
We will all die some day. If we celebrate political violence when it happens to “bad guys” like Charles, we can’t criticize people who celebrate when our paragons are assassinated. The difference between “good” and “bad” guys goes beyond aims, it also involves means.
But it’s not just that he was a ‘bad guy’. It’s was that he promoted gun violence and hate, and was doing so as he got one-shotted by someone who hated him.
Do you have a crush on me?
👉👈🥹
It’s strange that you think I’d cut someone’s head off
Seems like something that religious types do, rather than me
Classic love triangle. Wants the person they like to have crush on them, but they won’t. Meanwhile I am over hear ready to do my best piston impressing and I go immediately blown off.
And I don’t need you to like me. I just need you to give in enough for us both to have a good time ;)
I generally don’t go for people who romanticize violence.
I’m not engaging with you
I don’t like you
This sounds like an absolute win
Imagine being a Christian believing in an all knowing creator and thinking God mistakenly made trans people… Like have you never read genesis. Eve was cloned and transitioned in the first few paragraphs .
Sincerely a guy who believes in the teachings of Christ.
Yeah I see what sub this is in but you won’t defeat “Christian hate” with dismissal.
Imagine being a Christian believing in an all knowing creator and thinking God mistakenly made trans people…
Are we not talking about a group of people whose central premise is they were ‘born in the wrong body’?
Who? Trans people? Not sure what you are going for here…
You defeat it by treating them like people who have been ruined by a dangerous violent mental illness. Possibly the only one that makes people more likely to hurt others than themselves. Cut that special exception out of the DSM and just diagnose it for what it is.
Transfer all that stigma where it belongs. Be condescending and cautious as you would about anyone else shouting about their imaginary friend in public.
you won’t defeat “Christian hate” with dismissal.
As Charlie Kirk so eloquently demonstrated.
As the good lord said : bow down before the one you serve, you are going to get what you deserve…oh wait that was Trent
I just call Evangelicals devil worshipers. Conservative “Christians” sold their soul to the Devil by embracing hate. They love hate more than they love God. If you worship hate, you’re worshiping the Devil. Their religion is fundamentally evil.
kinda idiotic, regular nazis dont believe in god
But they very proudly claim to.
They’ll violently lash out if you say that to their face though
